Deep

4/10/2016

I woke on the floor by the front door with blood on my head. I had no idea how I had got there or how long I had been laying in that position. I tried to lift myself up, weakly, and saw pieces of wood all around me. I was puzzled and confused, disorientated. It turns out I had fallen unconscious and fallen through a wooden table. I half-crawled, half-staggered, to a different room and collapsed.

This experience taught me vividly how suddenly and dramatically our circumstances can change. In this case, I had a contracted a severe infection and was rushed into hospital in an ambulance. In other situations, it could be e.g. a sudden loss of a relationship or a job, a loss of someone or something important to us. It can come out of nowhere, leaving us lost, shocked and reeling.

There’s something about loss that can fundamentally challenge our sense of security and certainty, especially in wealthy nations where we cushion and insure ourselves against all kinds of pain and hardship. It can force us to face deep spiritual and existential questions that lay out of reach of simple ‘positive thinking’, e.g. who are we, why are we here, who and what really matters?

So a reflection and challenge for leaders, OD, coaches and trainers. How far do we face and address profound life questions in our work? How far do we allow ourselves to stay on the surface, the superficial, without going deeper? How far are we willing to travel with people, if they want to, into spiritual and existential places? How well do we handle it if people pose such questions to us?

212 Comments

Mandy Rutherford

4/10/2016 11:20:37 am

Really good call Nick - perfect reminder - thank you!

Nick Wright

4/10/2016 11:21:09 am

Thanks, Mandy. Much appreciated!

Julian Srodecki

4/10/2016 11:49:48 am

Thought provoking. Thanks for sharing.

Nick Wright

4/10/2016 11:50:33 am

Thanks for the affirming feedback, Julian!

Stella Goddard BA (Hons) Registered MBACP (Accred)

4/10/2016 02:12:01 pm

Sounds like you are facing some deep questions Nick through the challenges you are experiencing. My sense is that at some point we will all face the profound questions about life and what it is that makes life meaningful. Who am I? What am I here for? Why suffering? etc. In my clinical work I make space for my clients to explore and reflect on existential, spiritual and faith issues if they would like. I do hope that your health is now improving.

Nick Wright

4/10/2016 02:13:53 pm

Thanks Stella. I've faced these questions my entire life. I only began to discover answers that felt meaningful to me when I encountered Jesus. Good to hear that you offer space to clients to reflect on these issues.

Yolanda Gray

4/10/2016 03:20:51 pm

I was just thinking about this last night in talking with a prospective client looking for "career" advice. So much going on there that was "deeper" than "I need a new job; I hate my current one." " How far are we willing to travel with people, if they want to, into spiritual and existential places?" If they want to--your words. I really listen to my inside God voice in deciding if they're open to. Last night, I went only so far. Thank you for your always-provocative posts.

Nick Wright

4/10/2016 03:21:35 pm

Thanks for your kind and honest feedback, Yolanda. Always appreciated.

Yolanda Gray

7/10/2016 11:09:00 pm

I'm a firm believer in one having to have a spiritual connection to someone, something greater than him/herself. I chose Jesus too and my life has never been the same.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 11:10:53 pm

I am very glad to hear that, Yolanda. :) You may find this piece resonates at some points? http://www.nick-wright.com/sense-of-destiny.html

Robert Hodge

4/10/2016 03:57:13 pm

This is the real stuff of coaching.

Nick Wright

4/10/2016 03:58:25 pm

I agree, Robert - not least in terms of greatest potential for personal, relational and cultural transformation.

Lakshmidevi Vasudevan

6/10/2016 09:17:54 am

Hope you are fine now. Thanks for sharing it. Experience and wisdom teaches that nothing is forever. We never know what happens next moment! However it's easy to fall in to illusion again! Presence is so beautiful and it connects to the ultimate! However it's life time practice to suspend thoughts and be present. I wish people ask such questions to me :-) I would love to engage in a very deep conversation. Though it's a realisation for me lately that it cannot be told. It has to be experienced to believe!

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 09:21:34 am

Thanks Lakshmidevi. Yes, living in the present can be beautiful...and challenging. It's so easy to get drawn into past memories - or future imaginations.

Isabel Finch

6/10/2016 11:31:30 am

Very insightful; do coaches fear drowning if they go too deep with their clients?

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 11:31:58 am

Thanks Isabel...and good question!

Christian Dinensen

6/10/2016 11:32:53 am

From my point of view I work with the client and the matter in focus that is within my professional ability to add value to and within my personal comfort zone where my own core values keep a level of authenticity and integrity. So it must be in the first contact I define the fame, the context and content and from there evaluate whether I am the right one. I do believe in my role as an executive coach and trusted advisor that the 3 areas: Private, Personal and professional always interact and influence each other and therefor have an impact mutually on each other. Therefor I always consider the possibility of something coming from one of these 3 areas of the client, because it is life.......

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 11:33:52 am

Thanks Christian. That sounds like and honest and integrated approach.

Ian Reid, SP

6/10/2016 11:34:44 am

This is a good question Nick, and I feel that this debate will go on ... and on... and on. I guess (for me) there are three main factors: [avoiding] Legal/Governmental Licensing in the country of practice by calling therapeutic interventions "coaching"; Practitioner Organisations' Ethics/Codes of Conduct allowing [even encouraging] this for the orgs commercial gain; but above all the training, competence, & relevant independent supervision of each individual coach/practitioner. I've written before about the irresitible rise of unsupervised less-well/minimally trained coaches choosing to practice in the counselling/psychotherapy space (because they can, by calling it "coaching"). This still concerns me ethically and professionally. It is, however, a continuum and well supervised, well-trained professionals are much more likely to be aware of their professional and ethical competencies and the potential consequences of different depths of work - and when to give up their own personal financial gain, and refer on in the client's best interest...

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 11:36:36 am

Thanks Ian. I think those are wise considerations and influence what we are willing and able to contract around with a client.

Pamina Mullins

6/10/2016 11:37:34 am

Hi Nick. First I feel privileged that they feel safe enough to put their trust in me by sharing their most vulnerable moments. Then I do my best to help them explore what they feel the experience means to them and ways to leverage it to move forward productively. In some cases they may benefit from additional or alternative interventions to the ones I can offer, in which case I refer them to appropriate sources.

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 11:38:36 am

I agree, Pamina. Trust is so precious and important. It's something about recognising our gift and our boundaries.

Stella Goddard BA (Hons) Registered MBACP (Accred)

6/10/2016 11:39:28 am

Excellent question Nick - I go as deep as the client feels able to and wants to. My hope is to work with the roots of the clients' difficulties but this depends on a number of factors including whether we are working briefly or long term.

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 11:41:35 am

Many thanks, Stella. Your approach sounds very client-led. I'm curious. What role do you see yourself playing insofar as shaping agenda and boundaries are concerned?

Stella Goddard BA (Hons) Registered MBACP (Accred)

6/10/2016 11:54:53 am

Nick - My approach is Integrative and incorporates Psychodynamic Theory, Attachment Theory, CBT (and spirituality and faith as appropriate) In essence we look at clients childhoods to see the impact of this on present day functioning. The agenda is led by the client and I use my framework to help me (and them) understand what is happening. This insight then leads to the possibility of change - this is where therapeutic challenge comes in. All of this is underpinned with a sound therapeutic relationship. I am not directive but I do use interventions to increase insight and thus the potential for empowerment.

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 11:57:08 am

Hi Stella. So your framework and relationship set the focus and boundaries of your work with the client..?

Stella Goddard BA (Hons) Registered MBACP (Accred)

6/10/2016 08:00:59 pm

That's it Nick - yes. I should also add Nick that boundaries of the work are set by the Ethical Frameworks of the professional bodies to which I belong.

Jon Randall

6/10/2016 11:42:26 am

Hopefully you're back to full health now Nick. I naturally love depth work and bridging the everyday with the spiritual. It's where the magic is for me and what excites me most about the work. Thanks for writing.

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 11:43:25 am

Thanks Jon. Me too. :) Yes, feeling much improved, thank you!

Pamela Williamson

6/10/2016 11:53:26 am

We can only go as far as we've been ourselves already. Keep going & growing!

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 11:54:05 am

Intriguing, Pamela. Could you say a bit more about what you mean?

Pamela Williamson

8/10/2016 11:59:39 am

Good question Nick. Empathy allows us to be there for people facing their ultimate issues. Empathy allows us to understand another's feelings and perspective. If we are afraid of what is inside ourselves we will be unable to accompany someone else to their dark places and provide genuine acceptance and compassion.

Alison Cameron

6/10/2016 07:47:36 pm

For coaches engaged in developmental work these questions can and do arise as an important part of the process. The point to know when to refer on is a good one. In addition, there is an opportunity and a necessity for more coaches who are competent in navigating developmental terrain. I worry that we place existential questions too far outside of our professional lives and identities.

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 07:50:12 pm

Hi Alison. Why do you think we place existential questions so far outside?

Barry Jackson

6/10/2016 07:51:15 pm

It's a pretty deep question and I'm not sure there's a straightforward answer. I try to go beyond the superficial, but I allow myself to be guided by body language that tells me its time to back off. I'm astonished how deep some people choose to go. I have twice been asked to pray with or for a person with an incurable illness.

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 07:54:15 pm

Hi Barry. I'm curious. What do you do if people go deeper than you have expected them to...or ask you to pray?

George Anderson MSW, BCD, CAMF

6/10/2016 07:56:23 pm

In Los Angeles, an Anger Management Coach agreed to provide group coaching for a 19 year old man suffering from schizophrenia. During his first group session, other members of the group laughed at this client and called him "crazy". After his second session, the client committed suicide.
The client's parents sued the coach and the State Attorney General's Office convicted the coach of practicing psychology without a license.

Nick Wright

6/10/2016 07:58:36 pm

That's a scary account, George. I wonder how the coach had described themselves and what they had contracted with the client and the group.

Robert Biswas-Diener

7/10/2016 09:55:48 am

George do you have a reference for that?

George Anderson MSW, BCD, CAMF

7/10/2016 09:56:23 am

This incident was in the news and in the Los Angeles Times. I will see if I can find it.

Jim Ferran

7/10/2016 09:57:23 am

A truly effective trainer should create an environment whereby personal reflective practice is both encouraged and supported. Knowing ones subject and having an instinctive understanding of people is essential.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 09:58:04 am

Hi Jim. I like the emphasis on personal reflective practice..!

Lisa Gorman

7/10/2016 09:59:18 am

Nick such great questions (hope you are well recovered by the way!). This would make for an awesome topic and discussion for a gathering of practitioners interested in learning with and through each other. Well done you!

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:00:25 am

Many thanks, Lisa. Yes, recovering well. If you do gather with some practitioners to discuss...let me know what you discover and decide! :)

Lisa Gorman

7/10/2016 11:09:47 am

I will definitely share that back with you Nick cheers.

Estelle Ryan Clavelli, Ph.D.

7/10/2016 10:01:07 am

Hope you are well. This is a thought-provoking reality check. Nice introduction to a reflective exercise on so many topics. Good exercise. Thanks for sharing.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:01:41 am

Many thanks, Estelle. I do appreciate your affirming feedback.

Cath Norris, MA, BA, Dip Couns

7/10/2016 10:02:48 am

I try to stay open Nick. Sometimes that means being as lost, uncertain, scared...as my clients. I try to trust that this process of being in it together has value. We can't control this stuff. It's a big ride. Sometimes there's no words, just big deep places and whatever we find there together.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:04:29 am

I love the way you expressed that, Cath. Yes, spiritual and existential questions and experiences are not containable or controllable...which is where their wonderful potential and scary possibilities often emerge.

Cath Norris, MA, BA, Dip Couns

7/10/2016 11:13:57 pm

Deep and seemingly impossible so much of the time Nick...but something in me won't give up and keeps moving me forward...and something else is defeated...picking through the meat and the bones as I go.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 11:16:01 pm

You have such an amazingly honest, evocative and profound way of expressing these things, Cath. What you said here certainly resonates for me too...

Cath Norris, MA, BA, Dip Couns

7/10/2016 11:36:59 pm

On past memories. I had a beautiful gift today that I'd love to share. Talking with my Dad, he's describing a friends difficulty over accepting his daughters partner. Dad says 'he's just jealous'. I numb out. Later I'm reflecting as my partner drives me through the sublimely beautiful lake district. 'I was just jealous', I'm remembering my Dad telling me that, explaining why years earlier he'd attacked my partner. I'd been left feeling unloved and unlovable by the incident, in the impossible predicament of choosing my dad or my burdgeoning sexuality, my future. I chose my future. His previous explanation had simply confused me more, I'd felt he was jealous of someone else wanting me sexually. I carried that for 36 years. Today I felt the heart in his statement, the breaking heart of my father losing me, the daughter who adored him above all others. As the car mounted a hill my heart was opening and expanding in the knowledge that my Dad loved and adored me all this time. My heart felt it and grew more open, wider, than I've ever felt it before. It was visceral. Today I got my fathers love back.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 11:39:29 pm

Thank you for sharing such a deeply personal, heartwarming and hope-filled story, Cath! What a wonderful ending...and new beginning...for both of you. :)

Andrea Dasilva, M Ed., RCC

7/10/2016 10:05:15 am

I second what Cath says - being open and modelling to clients that it is ok to be scared/confused/vulnerable/name the feeling. It is completely fine to have tough times - let's talk about them and how to respond to them...
It's all part of this thing called being human!

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:06:20 am

Hi Andrea. Yes, there is something very profound about being-with in the midst...which is so different to doing-to in an attempt to fix.

Cath Norris, MA, BA, Dip Couns

9/10/2016 08:27:19 am

Being with as opposed to trying to fix is crux of the issue stuff. We're not broken we're alive. Perspective is everything.

Cath Norris, MA, BA, Dip Couns

7/10/2016 10:07:48 am

I'm finding that being in the present involves allowing myself to process the past memories and future imaginations - to give them space and awareness. There's grief and regrets I need to feel associated with my memories - personally, they're showing me something really integral about what I want to evolve in myself.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:09:40 am

That sounds like deep work to me, Cath!

Simon Smith

7/10/2016 10:10:59 am

Hi Nick - when I'm recruiting consultants I prefer people who, in addition to great professional experience, have ideally have worked through & recovered from some big personal difficulty or trauma. I find it makes them more empathetic & understanding of people in general, & usually makes them better coaches. My thinking is we usually learn more from our darker, difficult moments than we do the brilliant ones.
I always ask the question when I'm interviewing...not everyone is comfortable answering it, which of course I respect, but it gives great insight either way.
Btw, happy to share my experience...amongst many things I've gone through, I recovered from suicidal depression 14 years ago...

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:13:56 am

Thanks for sharing honestly from personal experience, Simon. It is certainly true for me that, when I have lived through experiences, it enables me to empathise more deeply with other people going through similar experiences. Your point about 'worked through' is important too so that we don't get triggered unhelpfully or project our experiences and meanings onto others when working with people.

Edna Murdoch

7/10/2016 02:45:46 pm

Very important questions, especially when I notice in my supervision work, that quite a number of coaches are struggling with high levels of complexity, stress and burnout in their clients. More than ever, 'who we are' matters - i.e. what have I developed in myself that enables me to hold a client safely? And what does the contract allow me to hold? And when should I really refer someone on? And am I getting supervision to keep my work safe and keep me developing???

More questions, I'm afraid! Edna

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 02:46:25 pm

Thanks Edna. I think those are good and important observations and questions too!

Bob Arnold

7/10/2016 02:47:28 pm

If I understand your question correctly, you're asking how well do we relate with our & others sudden life altering situations. If I base performance in this area by what others tell me about how I've helped them through the kinds of situations you describe then I'm doing very well with it. I find people don't think about a sudden occurrence in their life very universally; they only think about how they 'feel' at the moment. Thinking about how your life & others around you are affected by an occurrence has humbling aspects to it, but we must be guided through it by someone who can see it from a variety of angles. Thanks for your post.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 02:49:22 pm

Thanks Bob. My sense is that life-altering situations often bring spiritual and existential questions to the surface. I guess a question is how well we are able to enable people to deal with them...as well as to deal with them ourselves.

Timothy P. Nash

7/10/2016 02:50:29 pm

Hi Nick, great questions! I often ask myself - how can I expect my clients to go deep if I myself am not willing. I can't.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 02:51:27 pm

Thanks Timothy! I think that's a great question too. Do we have to have 'been there' to enable clients to 'go there'...?

William Kieffer

7/10/2016 02:52:21 pm

Great questions! I'll suggest these are great times to we remember we are not alone in this journey. If/when the depth/scope exceeds our comfort or expertise, perhaps it is time to reach out to trusted colleagues with relevant skills/experience to best help our clients.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 02:53:23 pm

Thanks William! I think that's a good point. It's something to do with increasing our own and our clients' resourcefulness.

Harry Bury

7/10/2016 02:54:00 pm

Nick, this why I earned a PhD to become an OD consultant along with my priesthood.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 02:54:26 pm

Thanks Harry. Say more..?

Sally Moore

7/10/2016 02:55:14 pm

Going deep is great if you know how to deal with whatever you might find down there. Skill required.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 02:57:47 pm

Hi Sally. It can pose an interesting and, at times, agonising paradox. Is it really possible to deal with the deepest spiritual and existential questions? If so, what does it mean to deal with them? If not, what does that mean in terms of e.g. coach/client relationship? Sometimes, being-there and being-with may be the best we can offer.

Sally Moore

7/10/2016 10:32:09 pm

Nick, of course it's possible but whatever a coach does needs to be safe (enough) and within their competencies. If digging deep exposes serious vulnerability or risk, the coach will need to do much more than simply being there. He/she has a duty of care to their coachee and unconscious incompetence can be very dangerous indeed as George's tale shows. If a coach doesn't have the skills and support to deal with those most challenging scenarios, they shouldn't be going there!! It's very straightforward ethics. Informed consent and clear contracting are also needed. There are now a lot of coaches with therapist qualifications and experience who are best placed to do/supervise this kind of thing.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:33:43 pm

Hi Sally. I agree with you about ethics, capabilities and boundaries. I question 'of course it's possible'.

Sally Moore

7/10/2016 02:58:30 pm

Interesting story George. As both coach and clinician, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often - probably because coaches aren't registered so orgs like ICF have no balls to deal with such things. Coach training, in my view, doesn't cover risk identification and management nearly effectively enough. When I've raised this as an issue the response is often along the lines of "It's not what coaching is about" or "I don't believe in mental illness diagnoses" or "Coaches only deal with healthy populations". Compound that with a saturated market and the arrogance of "coaching fixes everything" and unethical practice, in my view, is common (how on earth does a coach take on a vulnerable young man like that?). It's a worry I've had for many years but coaches don't want to talk about this stuff, it is scary and not at all sexy. My heart goes out to that young man's family. I hope that coach never works again - but with no registration there is nothing to stop that from happening.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 02:59:55 pm

You pose some important challenges, Sally.

Jim Greene

7/10/2016 10:35:25 pm

I prefer to challenge to teach myself something every time I train others... that keeps me fired up!

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:36:30 pm

That sounds good, Jim. Perhaps it's about how deep you are willing and able to go with yourself as a trainer?

Ron Bayless

7/10/2016 10:37:09 pm

David Whyte addresses this very important matter in his book "The Heart Aroused."

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:38:29 pm

Thanks Ron. I'll check it out!

Ron Bayless

7/10/2016 10:48:24 pm

I'm curious about pressure from the company to stick to plain vanilla where training is concerned... specifically, has anyone been admonished for diving deeper than the company wanted or expected (regardless of effectiveness or trainee acceptance)?

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:50:42 pm

Interesting question, Ron. You may find this case example resonates? http://www.nick-wright.com/blog/appraisal

Ron Bayless

9/10/2016 08:39:57 am

Yes, Nick, it resonates - thanks for sharing.

David Noer

7/10/2016 10:40:44 pm

If you dig hard enough and are skilled enough, all clients – particularly those in the corporate world – are struggling with the existential questions of purpose, meaning, and identity. The very best OD consultants are able to bridge the legal and ethical issues that distinguish therapy and spiritual guidance. The problem is that it is no game for amateurs because they can cause more harm than good and run into contracting issues with corporate clients wanting only “business” results.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:42:45 pm

Well said, David. I'm curious. In your experience, what do the very best OD consultants do to bridge the legal and ethical issues?

David Noer

8/10/2016 12:11:49 pm

Nick, I think it’s kind of an art. Not getting too hung up on boundaries but knowing when to involve a licensed partner. For me, it is focusing on helping the client as an individual, not necessarily the organization. This kind of flies in the face of some large system interventions but it works for me. The essence is what Peter Vaill frames as “phenomenology.” That means forming a unique learning and helping relationship with the client, unhindered by pre-conceived theories or techniques.

Nick Wright

8/10/2016 12:14:10 pm

Thanks David. Viall's phenomenology reminds me of the value and impact of presence, emergence and adaptiveness.

Andrea Khaldi

7/10/2016 10:44:24 pm

Nice question ^^
And I'm currently dealing with the answer. I tend to build the right Balance with the client and I usually find I can go as deep about myself as the client is willing to go about his own personal experiences
Lately I have been using a Technique which allows the client never to talk about his own Experiences unless she or he thinks it may be of some use and this is helping a lot with my work.

Nick Wright

7/10/2016 10:45:55 pm

Thanks Andrea. Sounds interesting. Do you have an example of using the technique that you could share?

Andrea Khaldi

8/10/2016 12:00:29 pm

Hello Nick ^^
We developed a Technique based on the construction of Mind Palaces, which normally are used for enhancing one's memory.
By doing that I can actually allow the client to talk about his problems or goals without actually ever talking about them directly. I analyze the Process instead of the Contents and I let the person understand what he or she has to do in a more subtle way.
And in the end, they also have a beautiful Mind Palace they can use to memorize whatever they want :)

Yvonne J Douglas, Bsc MBACP

8/10/2016 12:01:28 pm

I go as far as the client is willing to go; and as far as I can take them. I'm finding many of my clients, if not all, want to go deeply into their spiritual existence.

Nick Wright

8/10/2016 12:04:08 pm

Hi Yvonne. It raises all kinds of interesting questions for me about how far we, as coaches, may introduce dimensions of exploration to the client which they may find profoundly beneficial, yet which they may never have considered previously or have raised without prompting..?

Yvonne J Douglas, Bsc MBACP

11/10/2016 09:08:06 pm

Yes it can raise many questions. As a spiritual coach and counsellor people who come to me are looking for this type of coaching. I help them discover what's right for them. I find I attract many sensitive souls (generally empaths) and once they discover this, it helps them a great deal on their journey of self discovery.

Nick Wright

11/10/2016 09:11:37 pm

Hi Yvonne. If we are explicit about the spiritual basis of your work, which it sounds like you are, it enables clients to self-select whether or not to work with us and whether our approach is one they would find useful.

Cath Norris, MA, BA, Dip Couns

8/10/2016 12:06:29 pm

I love this piece on Relational Depth http://www.lcandcta.co.uk/special/relational-depth.php

Nick Wright

8/10/2016 12:07:03 pm

Thanks Cath. Looks interesting.

Prabhaker N Thakur

8/10/2016 12:08:39 pm

Yes, I have been admonished once by the senior HR personnel for "diving deeper" because participant's feedback, both formal and informal, about my work was far superior to their in-house trainers, which somewhat posed a threat to their jobs.

Of course, I never got repeat business from that company in spite of doing some good work and being in demand.

Their feedback is still with me on record.

Nick Wright

8/10/2016 12:09:54 pm

Intriguing, Prabhaker. In practice, what did you do that they considered to be diving deeper?

Prabhaker N Thakur

8/10/2016 06:50:56 pm

Hi Nick,

It was a three days intervention with fairly mature individuals holding senior position in the company. A lot happened over this period.

To cut a long story short, all I did was to help the participants increase their awareness -- about self, and the others and their environment.

Many masks were dropped unconsciously and a few started questioning their own decisions and actions without any fear or blaming others or the environment. A huge shift was actually noticed by the participants in their own behavior towards each other that looked beyond the labels.

A couple of days later when I met the friendly HR representative, what I gathered from the "polite" reprimand was that though the objective of the workshop was to help participants get ready for leadership roles, their new found questioning ability was not being appreciated as it was making all uncomfortable in the company. In a way, it was being seen as a threat to those above them.

My style of delivery was also seen as something that was unconventional i.e. was situational, free-flowing in nature, sans PPT or handouts, still remained laser focused. That made in-house trainers uncomfortable as though a few were participants but were unable to track my thoughts or movements, which they would have liked to use in their future assignments.

And... that's all I can write here as simplistically as I can.

Nick Wright

8/10/2016 06:53:34 pm

Thanks Prabhaker, Sounds like the organisation could benefit from deep reflection on its culture.

Carl Flynn, MSc, BSc (Hons), Cert. Ed., MBPsS

8/10/2016 03:57:10 pm

One person's depth is another person's shallow water! Sometimes coaching and counselling are not enough and a client would benefit more from psychotherapy, which may help with questions such as who am I? A good supervisor should help with boundaries.

Nick Wright

8/10/2016 04:00:10 pm

Hi Carl. One person's depth is another person's shallow water. I like that. Psychotherapy can certainly help a person address 'who am I?' at a psychological level. In my experience, however, psychotherapy is no more or less useful than coaching or counselling to address deeper spiritual or existential questions.

Carl Flynn, MSc, BSc (Hons), Cert. Ed., MBPsS

10/10/2016 02:28:06 pm

Nick - As a trained coach, counsellor and now trainee psychotherapist I would have to disagree!!

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:30:00 pm

It's OK to disagree, Carl. :) Do you have an example of where you have used psychotherapy to enable a person to deal with deep spiritual or existential issues - e.g. angst about the nature of their existence in the world..?

Jane Keep

8/10/2016 06:48:01 pm

Interesting discussion - if we live life on the surface thats fine - but at some stage those things that are deeper down do come back and bite us in the backside. I was burnt out 16 years ago and realised I needed to change my life as the trajectory wasnt looking good. During this time I made a lot of changes through self observation, self honesty, making life an inquiry - as a student of life and gradually unpicked a lot of things. I am the wellest Ive been in my life nowadays and this is just the beginning. I did a phd and wrote part up as auto ethnography of the things I grappled with in going deeper and getting to the root of issues. http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/21799/ . The world around us has a brilliant way of reflecting what we need to see so we can learn and evolve - whether it is a squirrel, a cobweb, a traffic jam, everything is everything.

Nick Wright

8/10/2016 06:49:25 pm

Thanks for sharing such a hope-filled personal account, Jane.

Jo Bamber-Pioro

9/10/2016 08:18:54 am

It depends which model I am using as the frameworks are different. With CBT Psychotherapy I can go deep into childhood experience/trauma or I can work with acute mental health which is more in the moment. With EMDR the memory network takes the person where it needs to go. Quite often its a case of just being with the client and staying out of the way so processing can occur. I see processing trauma as walking beside the client helping them to have one foot in the past and one in the present so they can access their memories safely. I go as deep as is needed for processing & adaptive resolution to occur whilst at the same time being careful to pace therapy to take into account dissociation and risk.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 08:21:14 am

Hi Jo. Do you have any examples of how you have used these (or other) approaches to enable a client to deal with their deepest spiritual or existential questions?

Peter Bodis

9/10/2016 08:22:01 am

Hi. Working in a specialist personality disorder service - therapeutic community with relational affect regulation model. We work with very complex symptoms. Despite encouragement to go deep in to regressed states of mind in the individual therapy - it appears that 'the trust in th world ' is a key in opening up the 'ugly' aspects of individuals past. Despite working incredibly hard to maintain integrity, congruence and reliability - community members endlessly question one's intentions and have numerous feelings of being uncared for, neglected or even abused. And that is a process of breaking up those barriers that prevents individuals from access to deeper self exploration. Often in course of therapy - individuals negotiate a more solid containment - in order to progress with therapeutic work. And yes - those time are when they find themselves facing the existential questions and at need of defining own meaning of life.Reaffirming those treasured findings is following suit in process

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 08:24:15 am

That sounds like challenging and, potentially, very rewarding work, Peter. Can you say a bit more about 'the trust in the world', perhaps with an example to illustrate it?

Jan Turner

9/10/2016 08:24:58 am

Wow. Thanks for sharing this.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 08:25:35 am

Thanks Jan - you're welcome. :)

Robert Leung

9/10/2016 08:29:31 am

I have always used an emotionally based reference point for my coaching. I believe it lends itself to a deeper questioning, understanding and trust. I believe that we are emotionally driven in our decision making and use logic to rationalize our decisions. I think all of our goals have some emotional basis.

I believe we are given a default story as children through parenting and culture and we live those stories as if that is who we really are. At some point, usually later in life, we begin to separate ourselves from the story we were given and begin to create our own story of who we are. Being willing to dig deeper can be very helpful in this process of discovery.

Ultimately we should to do the work we feel comfortable with but I think it's good to stretch every now and again. Going deep is the only way to get to the roots.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 08:32:37 am

Interesting points, Robert. Social constructionism (e.g. Vivien Burr, 2015) poses some mind-bending challenges to the notion of 'who we really are'.

Cath Norris, MA, BA, Dip Couns

9/10/2016 08:33:58 am

Nick, those shocking experiences which leave us reeling and questioning - their juxtaposition with our privileged security - the meaning I'm making from my own experiences of loss and vulnerability brings up my connection with those who are more vulnerable due to how our world is constructed. As my initial grief moves through I notice my hope that the experience will open me to another level of empathic connection with others. Our appreciation of the commonality of suffering and our connection with community seems crucial in how we make meaning of our suffering. The prevailing therapeutic emphasis on individuality deeply compounds our isolation and our angst.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 08:36:12 am

I think that's true, Cath. I also wonder how far our sense of angst is related to a secular preoccupation with dismissing the Divine.

Cath Norris, MA, BA, Dip Couns

10/10/2016 02:02:14 pm

Nick, I'd say that in our culture we lose our innate connection to Divinity, Source, Tao, Nagual...whatever we choose to call it...at a relatively young age. Our ability to 'dream in' frequently gets replaced by a two dimensional relationship with life. I believe that inevitably leads to angst and feeling at loss. We lose the magic and our sense of wonder.

What usually comes up for my clients is a sense of disconnection from themselves. The place I relate with them from has a direct influence on the place they relate to themselves from. It's not about being directive, rather about what I pick up on. The quality of energetic connection that we offer can support the same connection in others. If I'm open and expansive, reaching for that which isn't obvious but is subtly implied, then potentially my clients reach to the very edges of their awareness. I find that what they discover there is a profound connection to the subtle dreamlike self which communicates with and with which source communicates. We're talking about how we connect with an aspect of ourselves which communicates through dreamlike signs and signals. We need to be able to pick up on and support awareness of those signals.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:05:40 pm

Very profound, Cath! The answer to my own questions about disconnection and connection with myself are inseparable to my sense of who I am, who we are, in relation to God. For me, it is all bound up with the person of Jesus and with my/our intimate relationship with him.

Lucy Luo

9/10/2016 08:37:10 am

Travel with life.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 08:37:40 am

Can you say a bit more, Lucy?

Margaret Glossop

9/10/2016 10:02:35 pm

Currently facing change myself is forcing self reflection and analysis and the courage to answer those difficult questions that I have been avoiding. I will always be guided by the honesty and courage of those I coach and have been passing on the words of my late surrogate grandmother who said 'it doesn't always go dark at 4 o'clock'. comforting words from a wise lady.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 10:03:43 pm

Hi Margaret. I'm curious. What does, 'It doesn't always go dark at 4 o'clock' mean to you?

Zennia Esterson UKCP, B.A. Hons.

9/10/2016 10:05:09 pm

It depends on the patient. As a Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist I go deep working through many years of therapy. some patients however just want to talk about day to day experiences. They occasionally may touch on repressed areas.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 10:07:10 pm

Hi Zennia. What if the patient raises issues that touch on deeper spiritual or existential issues that they are unaware of - and yet you believe could be therapeutically beneficial for the client to work on?

Janyce Prine

9/10/2016 10:07:57 pm

By going deeper I want to clarify I hear you talking about self disclosure. If I am wrong just disregard this comment. How deep to go depends on the client. For me I might be able to feel a connection that says go deep early on maybe even during the initial assessment; while with others I know immediately going deep could be harmful to them, myself, or both of us. If I chose to go deep during an assessment I often get the response "I was going to lie to you" "I was not going to tell you everything" "I think you really care" or other comments like that. This has confirmed my thought process for sharing and taking them deeper and helping each person realize we are all human and not exempt from life happening to us each and every day.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 10:10:30 pm

Hi Janyce. By going deep, I'm talking about dealing with spiritual and existential questions and issues with the client.

Mia Haavisto

9/10/2016 10:11:52 pm

Loss is transformative and challenging... we need to talk about it a lot and share what our stories are that they understand that we understand...if we don't care we can't share.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 10:13:31 pm

Hi Mia. Can you say a bit more about what you mean when you say, 'we need to...share what our stories are'?

George Seber

9/10/2016 10:14:36 pm

Great discussion. I guess how deep we go will depend on how safe a client feels with us. It is a bit like peeling an onion as we go through the layers. Changing the metaphor, the deeper a client goes diving the more care is needed to bring the person back to the surface to avoid the benz.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 10:16:55 pm

Thanks George. I like your use of the diving metaphor to highlight avoiding the bends! This need may be true for the therapist too.

Grace Getzen

9/10/2016 10:18:36 pm

Hi all,
I love conversations like this. Thank you for opening up the topic. I try to remain as present as I can so I can catch the smallest opportunity or opening to go deeper with my clients. I'm very clear that showing by example is a way to give my clients safety to open up so I try allow myself to be vulnerable with my clients.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 10:20:07 pm

Thanks Grace. What does 'go deeper' mean for you..?

Grace Getzen

11/10/2016 09:01:47 pm

Hi Nick...
Go deeper would mean seeing an opportunity to take our conversation to a more intimate sharing level such as revealing something that would leave me vulnerable and also open up the possibility for my client to meet me there and delve into their own inner layers where things might not be so perfect. Do you think it's too much ?

Nick Wright

11/10/2016 09:04:59 pm

Hi Grace. I think you pose a really interesting and important question around personal disclosure. Perhaps a related question is about the potential influence and impact it has on the client relationship?

Ghetoon Effendi

9/10/2016 10:21:18 pm

Very thought provoking.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 10:21:55 pm

Thanks Ghetoon.

Denise Valk Faisst

9/10/2016 10:22:56 pm

As a coach, it's not up to me how deep a client should go. They make that decision and tell me what their intention is for the session.
It's up to me to tell the client if I can be of any service to him / her or that it is better to seek help from someone else.

Nick Wright

9/10/2016 10:24:47 pm

Hi Denise. What do you do if the client raises issues that have deep spiritual or existential dimensions...of which they are unaware?

Denise Valk Faisst

10/10/2016 02:10:57 pm

Nick, I would ask them if they are aware of issues that have deep spiritual or existential dimension. I believe in addressing in what I see and hear in a session and my clients know this up front when they start working with me. Sometimes it means that they will not be happy with what I have to share with them and it can be a surprise to hear things , they are not aware of. I'm not their coach to judge or tell them what to do but I am their coach that is willing to support them to have a better life experience. Coaching is a honest collaboration between me and my clients. Fortunately I am a coach that embrace spirituality or existential dimensions. There is more in life than our eyes can see but our hearts can feel.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:12:50 pm

Hi Denise. 'There is more in life than our eyes can see.' I agree. The question is sometimes how to navigate our relationship with a client vis a vis that which lays beyond physical vision.

Adetobi A Adewa-Faboro

10/10/2016 01:54:29 pm

From my own personal opinion. I think before you can analysis how far one can go, it all bound to the initial level of relationship you have established at the onset. It's always very good to create a personal reflective atmosphere with a standard professionalism attitude at all time in order to leave room for limit/boundary. In all honestly, it's often always rewarding if you can go very deep when asked for because a lot out there needed that assistance but find it extremely difficult to get, which can be very depressing and frustrating. The world is too busy to notice one another which is sad. Someone should see the deepness of others and if CAN, go with the deep and extra the person from that ditch BUT make sure you too don't get entrapped in the deepness because nobody will find you!

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 01:55:04 pm

Well said, Adetobi. Relationship is so important.

Janice Swierczek

10/10/2016 01:55:58 pm

This is a training session not therapy. Both trainers and therapists are trained to know and respect the limits and boundaries of their respective professions. Keeping those respective limits in mind, that is how deep you go.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 01:57:55 pm

Sounds like you associate dealing with spiritual or existential questions with therapy, Janice. I don't believe that is necessarily the case.

Janice Swierczek

12/10/2016 03:11:56 pm

Not necessarily, Nick. Spiritual and existential matters and issues have been the content of many a therapeutic session and brought into training sessions as well. But, therapy and training are two different "T" words. You asked about depth, in my opinion, if you are out of your depth, so to speak, in either, you are defeating the purpose of each activity because you don't know your limits.
Knowing your limits, in either situation, empowers you to react and interact with unconditional positive regard and professionalism towards all within the scope of your role and allows you to give information on resources or referrals that may be helpful.
Thank you for posing a question that brings forward such thoughtful dialogue.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 03:12:33 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution, Janice!

Shereen Elmie

10/10/2016 01:58:47 pm

My 5c worth.
It is easier to identify a change in mood when you have long term engagements or interactions with those being trained, for example: if you are a trainer holding a permanent position with a company and you interact with employees on a regular basis. In this instance, it would be unconscionable and counter-productive to ignore the lack of concentration or any other way in which a problem manifests.
If we are not trained as therapists or counsellors, we should direct the individual to the most qualified person, for assistance. In other words, it cannot be ignored! Same applies if these situations are encountered during training those with whom we have limited contact.
Either way and I think we all know this, it should be done outside of the training sessions so as to limit the impact on the rest of the group.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:00:38 pm

Hi Shereen. Sometimes, in my experience, surfacing and working on spiritual or existential issues in the training group has proved to be transformational for the group as well as for the individuals in it.

Siobhain (Vonnie) Crosbie

10/10/2016 02:06:31 pm

Everything depends on the client. I consider myself to work deeply with clients, but there's a time and place and helping clients understand loss is not just the loss of a person, but the loss of trust, innocence, security etc and helping them grieve those losses, but recognise they got through them is empowering. Having been through many many differing losses myself, I do allow myself to be comfortable in sharing an example of loss when relevant and I would struggle to stay on surface stuff when this wasn't beneficial to the client, so use the evidence of their words to allow them to go deeper within yet keeping it as comfortable, safe and within their control. There is nothing like being involved in work that allows the light bulbs to switch on, recognition and awareness to creep in and make changes to manage loss with process through their changes. I personally think loss is underneath most if not all, of the layers of all clients. :) loss one of the greatest topics of all.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:08:25 pm

Thanks Siobhain. I would agree that loss is a common theme and experience for clients...closely related to - and often giving rise to - existential issues around angst.

Deb Barnard

10/10/2016 02:13:25 pm

I would say my role is to gentle my judgement on content. Whether a client is exploring an existential enquiry (this can trip within the context of facing retirement for example) or ... whatever. Difficult work, painful work, existential work can be healthily explored within a coaching modality. If the listening space is well contained, the client will set the level of investigation - within the understood boundaries. I've tended to refer on to therapy when it feels a more forensic investigation into a theme may be useful - usually from the past. Or if I know there is someone more qualified than me who could assist e.g bereavement counsellor etc. We all have the potential to go deep - we may avoid that path or tentatively tread that path or stride; in therapy, in coaching, in analysis, seeing art, reading a book, talking to a friend ... Coaching has a focus on form (for enquiry/thinking) not content, per se.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:14:59 pm

Hi Deb. That sounds like a good balance of inquiry, awareness and boundaries.

Shirley Suhenda

10/10/2016 02:15:42 pm

Hi Nick, thank you for the profound question. In my experiences the limit is my bias. The deeper we go with our clients, the more awareness we need to have about ourselves on that issue. The journey itself will have impact on our being (as the coach). I might have the right questions and the genuine willingness to go deeper but could I give the space needed for my clients to process it mindfully while at the same time maintain my clarity on that issue within my own self? Am I ready for the journey itself?

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:17:59 pm

Thank you for such honest and profound reflections, Shirley. I agree the journey will have impact on our being. This is one reason why personal awareness, development and supervision as a coach are so important.

Wilma Smith-Leijdekker

10/10/2016 02:19:01 pm

I often feel that real change happens after you've dived deeper into what drives people, not when you stay on the surface. Then you change the surface, but no more than that. And that doesn't stick very well ... Helping people see what there is underneath the surface, makes them know themselves better, and possibly change deeper convictions and ideas about themselves and the world. Following that, their behaviour changes almost by itself. That's how it works for me, and most of my clients. But it does take time and courage!

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:22:29 pm

Hi Wilma. 'Deeper convictions and ideas about themselves and the world.' Yes, and how these are personally and socially (culturally) constructed and sustained.

Maria Kompanowski

10/10/2016 02:23:22 pm

I feel that we must go deeper in order to help the client to get through the challenges. Everything that goes on in our lives is doing so for a reason. Therefore we must find that reason and remove it when required. To help people, we sometimes touch deep in to their soul and bring out something that they have long forgot. Unresolved, forgotten blocks can influence the present and the future to no end.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:24:39 pm

Hi Maria. 'We sometimes touch deep into their soul.' I agree. In those moments, we can speak about a spiritual, an existential, encounter.

Choo Huat, Billy Teoh

10/10/2016 02:25:45 pm

Hold the space and seek permission to go deep. Intuitively, the time to go deep is when the 'calibrations', provide the readiness signals. Read the calibrations, seek the permission.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:26:38 pm

Hi Choo. Yes, this is where presence, listening, awareness, intuition etc. are so valuable.

Marion (Anschel) Franklin, MS, MCC, BCC

10/10/2016 02:30:56 pm

As a coach we can't coach someone who is more evolved than we are - especially when it comes to spirituality. Depth is important in coaching and we must consider the client and where they are. And, we have to be mindful that we remain within the guidelines of coaching.
The coaching that I do and teach is all about going deeper but always relating to the present. Unless we reach a certain level of depth, the coaching will only 'band-aid' a situation. If we go deep, we can create a permanent shift in perspective. However, I've listened to coaches who attempt to go deep and wind up doing therapy vs. relating back to the present.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:34:17 pm

Thanks Marion. Yes, there seems to be an association between depth and therapeutic issues for some people in this area. It means that learning how to handle focus and boundaries is very important personally, professionally and culturally...including where the boundaries are more diffused and fluid than clear and fixed.

Jenn Wicks, MEd, CEC

10/10/2016 02:35:41 pm

Thought-provoking post and something I struggle with when clients are not prepared to address deeper issues. I am reading Fierce Conversations by Susan Scott at the moment. It addresses this very issue, not just in coaching but all of those conversations we put off in life. It's a great read with practical applications!

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:37:22 pm

Thanks Jenn. Fierce Conversations can be a useful process for handling issues and relationships with client. What's your sense of how to use this approach to deal with deep spiritual or existential issues?

Robert Wilson

10/10/2016 02:38:28 pm

I feel it necessary to answer as many questions as possible, if appropriate, being in a training, managing or mentoring role. My personal goal is to have everyone on my team to be as good as I am or better. If you only stay on the surface with even work relationships I believe you will never have the trust that you can have through being open and sometimes vulnerable to tough questions. Every opinion matters because without different views on a given opportunity you cannot move beyond what has already be done. To get to the next level of greatness.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 02:42:16 pm

Hi Robert. Yes, trust is so important. In my experience, some of the deepest spiritual and existential questions are beyond answers. Sometimes, it's about learning to stay with the question. In those moments, acknowledging and being-with in the question can be more powerful than seeking to answer it.

Carl Baldwin

10/10/2016 07:25:34 pm

The very basis of any leader-development work is guiding the participants through those hard/deep discussions, and giving them the opportunity to work through them together. My helpfulness in that process lies in my ability to help them get there , not in providing them with my solutions.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 07:26:45 pm

I agree in principle, Carl, although I've rarely seen it in practice.

Ian Henderson

10/10/2016 07:28:13 pm

Insightful and provocative in equal measure Nick!

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 07:28:54 pm

Thanks Ian!

Tom Kenward

10/10/2016 07:29:41 pm

Important questions Nick. I'm reminded of the clichéd (yet probably true..) moto about not being able to take people places we haven't been ourselves. Issues of loss, transcendence, security and so on probably become more live for us as we get more life experience. That's proving to be the case for me, anyway. I guess for me, the degree to which I am open to this sort of ongoing development in myself is an important test of whether I am truly open to the world, and to my clients. And in terms of an ethical dimension, there's always a dilemma for me about how to contract in a transparent continual way to show clients doors they might not have seen, whilst letting them understand the possible consequences of walking through them for themselves as best we might and making sure they are taking responsibility for their journey. Thanks for the post.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 07:33:32 pm

Thanks Tom. Very interesting insights. I think the idea of, 'to show clients doors they might not have seen' is one of the opportunities and tensions at the heart of coaching.

Carin-Lee Masters

10/10/2016 07:34:57 pm

I agree with all of the above. Loss is a constant in human experience. Mostly people know what they need to do, but sometimes the losses have been multiple and requires intervention. That's when they usually seek help. This often then requiring us to work gently, respectful of their defences that may have been activated to prevent further loss or pain. Diving insofar as the client can go, and coming up for air, when they indicate. Always following their guidance, their inner knowing, while trusting one's awareness of, and respect for, self-protection, but gently nudging them along while being a constant by the provision of a trusting, authentic therapeutic relationship.

Nick Wright

10/10/2016 07:37:16 pm

Hi Carin. I love the metaphor of diving and coming up for air and the emphasis you place on trust and authentic relationship.

Tuncel Gulsoy

11/10/2016 09:13:12 pm

Thanks Nick, you reminded me of my situation after accidentally falling down and breaking my right shoulder, I felt lonesome and weak feeling fear deep in my heart. As a coach I go as deep as possible with my clients, I do not leave them even after their companies give up sponsoring our work, my job is over when all is said, settled and I feel it deep in my heart.

Nick Wright

11/10/2016 09:16:32 pm

Thanks for your honest personal reflections, Tuncel. I hope your shoulder recovered OK. These experiences can impact us in so many different ways. It sounds like you are very committed to walking with your clients. On being-with, you may find this related blog resonates? http://www.nick-wright.com/blog/4-words

Russell McCann

11/10/2016 09:17:16 pm

Love this! Good words.

Nick Wright

11/10/2016 09:18:04 pm

Thanks Russell!

Crystal-Marie S

11/10/2016 09:19:04 pm

Great question, Nick. Much of my practice has changed, as I've grown in those areas, to hold space for my clients to do the same. It's rarely just Pricing or Process or Schedule or Social Media. The root is almost always something else, and I've started inciting clients to go there. Thanks for going there! 🗝

Nick Wright

11/10/2016 09:20:31 pm

Thanks, Crystal-Marie. Sounds intriguing! Do you have any examples you could share from experience?

Crystal-Marie S

12/10/2016 02:58:13 pm

Sure, Nick Wright! In the past, if someone came to me for to figure out how to earn more, I'd immediately start with their schedule and pricing. Sadly, without realizing it, I was blocking out opportunities for other solutions doing that. Today, I'll ask different questions around how they use their time, and why. Procrastinators aren't avoiding major tasks "just because" so (as Tara Parker mentioned, if they're open to it), I allow the conversation to go deeper. Most of my clients don't have a 'safe place' to be vulnerable, so I let them get that out of the way so we can see what path forward would really work for them.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 03:00:31 pm

Thanks Crystal-Marie. I guess it's something about creating the space, presence, opportunities and stimulus for deep questions to surface.

Cristian Milone

12/10/2016 02:47:32 pm

I support always the developpement of personal resourses and secondary gain.
When I ask: "If you join your goal, would be any disadvantage inside of you?" , the answer "no" is not enough for me, let's look what the other "parts" of you think about.
For sure this process is easier on life coaching context, it would be different on business approach.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 02:48:13 pm

That sounds like an interesting approach, Cristian.

Wissam Assouad

12/10/2016 02:50:30 pm

Hope you are better Nick ! Great though provoking question. I think my question connects to the relationship I develop with my clients. While we might start off our relationship walking on eggshells for it to evolve later on and address problems head on. Practicing discernment in my work and seeing open doors and/or feeling the resistance. Also, I believe the magic grows the deeper we go.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 02:54:32 pm

Thanks Wissam. Improving every day. :) I agree with you about the importance of relationship. And, paradoxically, it is sometimes a breakdown in or loss of an important relationship that raises deep spiritual and existential issues to the surface.

Tara Parker

12/10/2016 02:55:58 pm

How far? Perhaps that would depend on the goals of the client and the coach in addition to abilities and knowledge. We can only go so far within ourselves and we must have that consciousness of self to understand how far we can take our clients - should they be ready to go.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 02:57:21 pm

Hi Tara. I think 'how far?' adds an interesting dimension to 'how deep?'

Astrid Davies

12/10/2016 03:01:17 pm

Interesting post indeed. Sudden changes in situation can disorientate. They also damage confidence and certainty. Always worth bearing in mind as a coach ....

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 03:07:00 pm

Thanks Astrid. Different changes affect different people differently...or the same people differently at different times in their lives. Good questions to ask may include e.g. 'How are you - here and now?', 'What issues or questions is this raising for you?', 'What do you need?'

Gail Page

12/10/2016 03:07:21 pm

I would agree Nick about the potential impact that disclosure could have on the relationship. I suppose it would depend on what you disclose and why.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 03:08:03 pm

Thanks Gail. Yes, and the contract with the client.

Gemma Perkins

12/10/2016 03:13:25 pm

I think it depends what kind of training you are delivering. Janice is right, training is not therapy - so going into people's underlying thoughts and motivation may be a little intense. If you are training someone in health and safety practices then a spiritual reflection is often irrelevant.

However, some types of training do lend themselves to deeper reflection. For example when we talk about time management training we link it to personal identity, underlying values and what people really want out of life, their purpose. We use it as a tool to get people to question the things they 'waste time' on in light of their overall purpose. But this only works if participants are feeling exploratory and you have enough time for personal reflection - giving everyone thinking and feedback time is a lengthy process.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 03:18:04 pm

Thanks Gemma. Your time management example is a great illustration. It can tap into deep spiritual and existential issues too - e.g. how long (or short, depending on how we construe it) we are here on earth, whether there is a time (a life) beyond death, whether there is a purpose beyond my own desires or wants. Even health and safety touches on important deeper questions, e.g. beyond legal and regulatory requirements, what do 'health' and 'safety' mean and evoke for us? As you say, it depends on what participants are interested and willing to engage with.

Linda Denny

12/10/2016 03:19:23 pm

Totally agree about learning from difficult situations. Very powerful.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 03:20:04 pm

Thanks for your affirming feedback, Linda!

Kaye Avery

12/10/2016 03:21:12 pm

A great question and I totally value the quality of the responses. Thank you.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 03:21:46 pm

Thank you, Kaye. Me too.

Tricia Mitchell

12/10/2016 05:16:17 pm

Wow. I've read your post a few times Nick. Glad you've recovered sufficiently to write about your experience. I believe that these moments can be seen in a number of ways - an invitation to question why we are here and an opportunity to awaken, as you've written; - our bodies mirror our minds, so, for example, if we believe we're "losing our grip" it will probably be mirrored in being unable to grip things with our hands; - we create our own reality (people often react defensively to this one, but we don't do it consciously) and science is researching if we live in a matrix; - if you believe we are spiritual beings having a human experience, then, we're here to learn what emotions feel like, such as loss, love, pleasure, pain, etc. My beliefs have shifted through those life changing moments where life hangs by a thread (and I've had a 'couple'). I didn't believe in reincarnation, or that we keep repeating lessons until we learn them. I also used to believe in 'something greater than me' but what people did in the name of religion meant I preferred to tick the 'spiritual' box on forms. That's now changed. God and Source/Consciousness are, for me, interchangeable. I find that I now attract clients who are spiritually open and, for some of us, that work goes incredibly deep. I believe my approach is spiritually pragmatic: we explore the root cause of an issue and, if our external world reflects our internal state, we're going deep. Where it is i.e. in this lifetime or earlier, we find it, learn the lesson and release it. I'm like Marmite, and clients who want to go the scenic route or remain at the shallow end of murky waters wouldn't resonate with my private coaching services. I think that when people are ready, synchronicities occur to put clients in front of the right facilitators to support what's needed at that time, at that stage of their spiritual journey. That may not be delivering services, but planting a seed of consciousness to lie dormant until the next opportunity to awaken arrives... or powerful coaching questions that have a profound effect, leaving them ruminating.

Nick Wright

12/10/2016 05:19:13 pm

Hi Tricia. Thanks for such fascinating reflections. I'm a Christian and much of what you describe resonates with me. I particularly like your comment, 'clients who want to go the scenic route or remain at the shallow end of murky waters wouldn't resonate with my private coaching services'. That's true for my work too.

Zohar Berchik

13/10/2016 09:06:22 am

Hi Nick, your post attracted my attention, but raised more questions, in terms of what you are actually saying or what you are really asking. There's something in me that when reading all these answers asks how in touch we all are, or transparent we are able to be about our own vulnerability. I know for myself, as time goes by and I become more experienced, I question this a lot. I have always been an advocate for diving as deep as the client needs and will allow given their own capacities to be held and given their intrisic ability to read what I am able to hold. I can only say that I view the depths that are visited as a function of where we are both at in terms of our inner world. We can believe we go deep with them into their existential abyss, we can believe our own is well examned and that we are modeling this or that and as you say, all it takes is a hickup in our delusion that we know what's what in the universe to throw it all into question. Its a scary place to be.

I will just add, I'm not actually critiquing other answers, I think they are all valid responses with which I resonate. Attitudes which I even teach my counselling students. But I can say in myself that I have had various ways of being emerge when faced with the decision to dare greatly and go with someone (or with a group) to their edges. One response has been almost heroic, I somehow access this silent knowing, a place within me that knows exactly what to do and can handle anything, a place where my inner professional resides, cooly, and authintically, solidly enough to go anywhwere with my client. But when I have been dealing with a tidal wave of personal challenge, like when my mother died, I have had at various times responses that allowed me to go deeper than ever, experiencing both strength and vulnerability, as well as responses that have compromised any capacity for depth in me at all.

Nick Wright

13/10/2016 09:08:27 am

Hi Zohar. Thank you for responding so beautifully, personally, honestly and profoundly. You are speaking to what I am saying and what I am asking.

Cindy Pacheco Morris

13/10/2016 12:32:33 pm

Goose bumps. Thank you for sharing this question and reflection. Definitely resonates with me.

Nick Wright

13/10/2016 12:33:03 pm

Thanks Cindy. I am intrigued..!

Jo Bamber-Pioro

13/10/2016 03:31:22 pm

Have I got examples? Sure I have clinical examples but I don't think thats what you're asking. I get a feeling that you are trying to make sense of how others make sense and then understand that yourself? You talk about your relationship with Jesus & god and how that helps you to make sense of things. My spirituality is similar but difficult to articulate as its more a sense of being and 'knowing'. Scientifically I would describe this as epistomology and would question who is a knower and probe the philosophy surrounding knowledge. My spiritually helps me make sense of things usually in a compassionate way but I believe how we interpret our clients response/shift and how deep we go is ambiguous and open to interpretation. I don't always have the opportunity and privilege to go deep with clients, and its not always needed. Who defines deep and how is that measured? I know people may recall at the mention of measurement but then how do we really know we have gone 'deep'?

Nick Wright

13/10/2016 03:33:36 pm

Hi Jo. I'm sharing...and curious...and open to learn. I think that's an interesting question about measuring deep, especially as I think of 'deep' as experiential and phenomenological rather than something that can necessarily or meaningfully be measured or quantified.

Jo Bamber-Pioro

14/10/2016 10:38:18 am

Yes I quite agree Nick about the measurement and its not that I think it should be measured but Im curious about whats deep to you, might not be deep to me as vice versa. Im also open and interested in the feedback loop of therapist to client and back again, so for instance I might have a very powerful shift when working with a client and think that something deep has occurred but how do we know that the client has also experienced what I think/feel they have? And do we have to work deep for change to happen? I really enjoy talking about existentialist experience and knowledge as there isn't any right or wrong answers, in fact it creates more questions and discussion sharing which is great.

Nick Wright

14/10/2016 10:42:16 am

Thanks Jo. It sounds like we are grappling with questions and experiences in the same arenas. :)

Shelley Lynott

15/10/2016 10:13:25 am

No holding back! I have found a lot of value in the idea that to become invulnerable one must be willing to be vulnerable. The road to transparency isn't for everyone but the freedom that I've experienced has been totally worth it.

Nick Wright

15/10/2016 10:14:47 am

Hi Shelley. I agree. Can you share an example of what that could look like in your coaching practice?

Michael C Leeson

15/10/2016 10:15:56 am

The therapist does not determine the journey for any help seeker, as a clinician we walk with people in encouraging them to explore their story. Yes, we use our knowledge & skills to facilitate a process of learning however, the help seeker is the expert in this area of inquiry & we a tool for part of their journey.

Nick Wright

15/10/2016 10:17:03 am

Well said, Michael. Determine - no. Influence - yes. Are we aware of how we are influencing?

Deep

Leave a Reply.

Nick Wright

Archives

Categories

Deep

Leave a Reply.

​Nick Wright

​Archives

Categories

Nick Wright

Archives