Just enough

31/1/2016

I did a coaching demonstration in front of a group of experienced mentors this weekend. In feedback afterwards, one person asked how I managed to (a) engage enough with the person to ensure they felt heard and understood and yet (b) remain disengaged enough to avoid being drawn too far into their situation with them. Another participant posed a similar question: how do I empathise and convey empathy to a person whilst holding a retaining a healthy and useful degree of detachment?

These are great and important questions for leaders, coaches and facilitators. Earlier in my career, I was working as an internal OD consultant and one of my client groups said they thought it would be helpful if I could know more about their work and become more embedded with them. I felt a bit concerned at hearing this (‘Are they saying I don’t understand them and, therefore, I’m not able to add enough value?') so spoke with my supervisor. He responded wisely: ‘Don’t play into that game.’

He was right. I order to add optimal value in that situation, I needed to understand and feel just enough of the client’s situation and experience to give them confidence that I was with them and, at the same time, to remain sufficiently detached to be able to bring fresh insight, perspective and challenge. The risk of being ‘embedded’ is that we become too immersed in the same institutional influences, agendas, cultural dynamics and personal circumstances that the client already is and feels stuck in.

So how to engage yet disengage? How to hold that creative tension without snapping in one direction or the other? Here are some ideas: 1. Be clear about your role in that situation – what it is you are there to be and do. 2. Pay attention to what you see, hear and feel when you are with the client, team or organisation – key headlines, themes, metaphors, intuitions and emotions. 3. Offer your insights as process observations - ‘What I’m noticing is…X…what I’m aware of is…Y’ How about you?

180 Comments

Bob Larcher

31/1/2016 02:32:22 pm

Interesting post. The Jedi code of conduct says, “emotions but peace”; easy to say but maybe less easy to do. I try to, keep an “appropriate” amount of distance between the person & what they are experiencing and myself & what I am experiencing. For me the key is probably, as you say, “be clear about your role in that situation – what it is you are there to be and do”. I’m not there to “sympathise” with the person or to take his/her side and neither to be apathetic or show no interest in their situation. Staying grounded and working with what is happening here and now is also important; not falling into the trap of discussing the “rights & wrongs” of situations that I haven’t actually seen – with the perception from only one of the parties involved. It would be interesting to see other points of view ……

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 02:38:40 pm

Thanks for sharing those insights, Bob. In my experience, all these things are easier to think and blog about than to do and sustain in practice! It strikes me that here-and-now self- and social-awareness is very important in these type of roles. It's very easy to get drawn into client issues and stories, especially where they resonate or feel dissonant with our own values and stories. That's where I find supervision valuable - to help me disentangle me from the other, where that is possible, and to keep a clear sense of my role and focus. With thanks again and best wishes. Nick

Jacqueline Hill link

5/2/2016 03:06:34 pm

Oh, how I recognise those hooks! As a management consultant who occasionally coaches within the same client organisations, I have learned the hard way (and through some excellent supervision) just how easy it is for my own perceptions to get in the way. I'm now much better at separation in my own mind, and as importantly, clearly owning the risk of being hooked and contracting explicitly for it with the client. So far so good (I think!).

Nick Wright

6/2/2016 12:33:24 pm

Hi Jacqueline. Many thanks for the note. Quick question: I'm curious. How do you do it? All the best. Nick

Hamish Taylor

31/1/2016 02:42:44 pm

Nick, nicely expressed - there is also a way in which you can fully engage and maintain your distance. In my case I am an embedded consultant / coach with one of my key clients but because I deliberately maintain a professional diversity in my client portfolio, I remain objective and indeed leverage the global common ground for all my clients, yet maintain professional objectivity. This gives depth of insight and empathy, without ever feeling "compromised" by "owning the client's agenda" - indeed I feel empowered with co-ownership, am 100% committed even if it is only for "some of the time". I believe that the breadth of experience, combined with strong sense of empathy means that fear of being "drawn in too far" is not an issue, neither for me nor my clients.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 04:00:39 pm

Hi Hamish and thanks for the note. I think that's a useful insight. I too work in a number of different roles and organisations and it helps me to bring a degree of 'objectivity', or at least a different perspective, when working with clients. Given that it's possible over time to become inadvertently or unconsciously inculturated or collusive, I find it very useful to invite support and challenge from peers and my mentor-supervisors. All the best. Nick

Terrence H Seamon

31/1/2016 03:28:43 pm

Good topic, Nick. Actually, in my view, this is the sort of topic we should see more of in the OD arena. Topics that go to the heart of what OD is all about.

In response, I'll paraphrase something said by the wise Peter Block: The answer to How is Yes.

Yes you have articulated a tension in the work we do. The answer is Cultivated Marginality where we work, as you point out, with a clarity about our Roles so that we know who we are and who the client is.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 03:30:25 pm

Many thanks, Terry. I always value and appreciate your insights and ideas in this field. I'm intrigued by 'cultivated marginality' - can you say a bit more about what that means and what it could look like in OD practice? All the best. Nick

Terrence H Seamon

31/1/2016 08:34:09 pm

"Cultivated Marginality" is a term for an OD concept, that I learned a long time ago in my evolution as a consultant, that says "Care...but not that much." (Nod to master negotiator Herb Cohen.)

Here are some more thoughts on this....

http://learningvoyager.blogspot.com/2006/07/choosing-marginality.html

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 08:35:20 pm

Thanks Terry. I'll take a look. All the best. Nick

Kit Tennis

31/1/2016 04:02:16 pm

Nicely said, Nick. I'm with you, Terry, this is a beautiful topic for the OD group. The dynamic tension between deep empathy and complete respect for the client's capacity to discover their own answers is often the challenge in our field.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 04:11:54 pm

Thanks Kit. It's something I have experienced as a challenge throughout my coaching and OD career, especially when working with the same clients over a period of time. There's always a question about how to build and retain genuine relationship and trust whilst, at the same time, being sufficiently detached to bring fresh insight and challenge.

I've noticed similar tensions over the past couple of years for journalists who embed themselves with, say, migrating people or military units in order to live and experience something 'from the inside'. It has been striking how that has often affected their ability to report what is happening in all its complexities, rather than simply from one experience/perspective that has become part of them of where they now feel deep loyalties.

Lots to learn. I look forward to hearing and learning from others too. With best wishes. Nick

Kit Tennis

2/2/2016 06:44:47 am

That marginality challenge for internals has led to some interesting work for me, over the years. When they feel it's too hot to handle, because of their own "marginality" in the system, such that they are not allowed to speak truth without ugly consequences. I get the call. It's been an odd pattern-- because they lose even more capacity to facilitate with neutrality. Sometimes I'm able to strengthen their hand through ethical partnering, sometimes I've been thanked and semi-blacklisted until the mud hits the fan again. I really feel for the majority of internal OD professionals, as few companies seem to understand the real potential of a strong, independent OD function.

As for my own neutrality, I find that I am best when I care enormously about their success, so much so that I am intensely committed to supporting them by keeping my own stuff out of it. Sounds self-contradictory, and it is. My best work is when they develop the capacity to doing their own work the vast majority of the time. I'm their friend by standing in two places at once-- right by their side and off in the distance.

Edward Hampton

31/1/2016 04:59:20 pm

Thank you for posting the question, Nick.

Respectfully, I believe it would be helpful to reframe the tension as "engaged and neutral".

I believe the dichotomy "engaged and detached" is not so much a tension as it is a conflict. I view "engaged" has having "skin in the game", i.e. to be wholly present in the situation - body, mind, and heart/soul. I do not think it is possible to be engaged and simultaneously detached.

On the other hand, I was taught that on OD consultant was to be neutral. That is born of the idea that a consultant should be a facilitator. It is possible to be fully engaged - even to have strong, biased feelings - but to manage those feelings by being deliberately neutral. Neutrality requires high EI/EQ. Neutrality enables one to operate as the person who brings and maintains justice to a situation, in my opinion.

Cordially, Ed, Drive On!

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 05:14:46 pm

Hi Ed and thanks for posing such a stimulating challenge. There's a risk that we engage in a semantic debate because it depends on what meaning words such as 'detached' and 'neutral' carry for us. However, I think you raise an interesting question about whether it's really possible to hold engaged and detached at the same time. I believe it is, and therein lies the tension. I'm not sure how possible it is ever to be truly neutral because our very presence with a system, however we choose to presence ourselves, has an impact, an influence. I think that's the same challenge for any person in a facilitator role, whether coach, therapist, group worker etc. I think your point about high EI/EQ is an important one. Perhaps the issue is to be as aware as we can be of our presence, our influence, and to own that with the client, hold it in awareness, rather than try to avoid or suppress it. What do you think? All the best and thanks again. Nick

Tom Warren

31/1/2016 05:17:31 pm

I agree with your insight and might substitute objective for detachment.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 05:25:24 pm

Hi Tom. Thanks for the note. Could you say a little more about your preference for objective over detachment? I'm interested in what meanings and connotations these words hold for different people.

When I think of objective, I think of a desire to achieve some level of cognitive and positional neutrality. Engaged, for me, holds a motivational and emotional dimension too.

So I guess by 'engaged yet detached' I'm including something like 'empathetic yet dispassionate'. I'm also noticing how hard it is to find words to articulate this well! All the best. Nick

Guerdah Felix

31/1/2016 06:21:41 pm

Great points! Being conscious about our role while staying in perfect balance. That is definitely a practice in life and business. Great article!!! Thank you.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 06:23:51 pm

Thank you for your encouraging feedback, Guerdah. Yes, and like any balancing act, it takes practice and is a skill we can learn! With best wishes. Nick

Steve Benfield FCMI FIC MAC

31/1/2016 06:24:46 pm

Surely, this is about the quality of your contracting? What did you contract for together with your coachee? The outcome of such high quality contracting is clarity up front of what each expects of each other - before the topic of coaching is aired and explored.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 06:28:52 pm

Hi Steve and thanks for the note. Yes, contracting is an important aspect. It helps to ensure that both parties are clear for themselves and about each other about goals, roles, etc. The skill, I think, is learning how to manage the tension...or the delicate balancing act...within ourselves as we engage with the client in the here-and-now moment. We need to be aware of what we evoke in the client and vice versa, almost in spite of anything we may have formally and rationally contracted, and to hold a clear intention and awareness as we work together. With best wishes. Nick

Cath Norris MA, BA, Dip Couns

31/1/2016 10:07:00 pm

Thanks for another juicy post Nick.

I was recently coaching a group of trainee therapists on this subject and I passed on what I was shown during my training. From a place of connection within myself I imagine an invisible line between myself and my client. I imagine myself coming to that line, available and open, receptive to 'meeting' my client. I don't go over that line because that is the place where I end and my client begins. The work which needs to take place beyond that line is my clients responsibility. That is where they grow their own muscles, to live their own lives, as they wish, and it is essential that I honour and respect that.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 10:10:55 pm

Many thanks, Cath. I really love that imagery of the line...of meeting the client there...of honouring and respecting the space where they grow. Very vivid and evocative. Thank you for sharing it. I will hold that in my own consciousness as I work with clients too. With best wishes. Nick

Cath Norris MA, BA, Dip Couns

31/1/2016 10:58:03 pm

That's lovely Nick, such a pleasure to share it with you.

Jo McAlpine

31/1/2016 10:12:07 pm

Agree and I think self awareness is key. How do you slow it down and create enough spaciousness so the client can experience empathic intelligence as a way of being, as opposed to a way of doing. It's an experience so doing anything is going to be transactional, whilst 'being' the coach is the job. I think we breathe into it and become.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 10:17:41 pm

Hi Jo and thanks for the note. I like your emphasis on experience of the coach and client. Something special can happen in that space within and between that is so much more than transaction or technique. You may find similar resonances in this blog too? http://www.nick-wright.com/blog/the-power-of-presence All the best. Nick

Karen Harness FCIPD

31/1/2016 10:30:08 pm

I hope you enjoyed the experience this weekend. I'm with you on your insights to how you might engage yet disengage in this scenario. I'm pondering how someone can go from zero to hero in this context....that is from "you need to know more" to "you really understand us" in the context of the coaching session and what I've experienced and what I see often comes down to the individual feeling heard sometimes for the first time.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 10:33:57 pm

Hi Karen. Yes I did, thank you. It was a great group of people to work with. I think you are right. The person I coached for the demo fed back that she felt heard and understood in the moment, without my needing to communicate 'gushing' empathy or to delve deeply into the situation she was thinking and talking through in that session. I would be interested to hear if you have had any similar experiences. With best wishes. Nick

Hamish Taylor

6/2/2016 12:34:45 pm

Karen, my thoughts on this particular point of yours is that I do a lot of pre-reading of material that I ask my clients to select for me - this give me both the background knowledge and I also gain insights into the customer partner I am working with. Generally speaking there will be a pattern of selection and emphasis in the pre-read that is shared; small signals that individually are of low meaning but collectively the pattern that is revealed allows me to see through the eyes of my client while still being able to maintain a distance and learn about the motivations, intent and feelings of my client. In case this sounds too clinical, I'll caveat this and illustrate it by saying that I did this with a brand new client this week and the insights from that are that the passion, positive emotional engagement and inspirational drive for change are entirely consistent and coherent. Additionally they sensitised me to the need to moderate the intensity with less convinced internal business partners. Moreover the client was receptive to that feedback, demonstrating both likeability and professional maturity on their part. So yes in my view you do have to quickly get up close and personal, but that doesn't mean you can't be objective and professional. It simply means that you have to temper the empathy after-burners with some 'tough love'. In fact the people that I work with often hear me describe it as "brutal empathy". Nick - this has been a very good thought-provoking discussion and great comments from all posters.

Nick Wright

6/2/2016 12:38:58 pm

Hi Hamish. 'Brutal empathy' takes 'tough love' to a whole new level! Are you familiar with Blakey & Day's work on Challenging Coaching, characterised by high support and high challenge? It remind me of Christian principles of grace and truth - a similar challenge to hold well in practice. With best wishes. Nick

Filao Wilson

31/1/2016 10:53:47 pm

Very interesting piece, thanks Nick. What I do, sometimes moment by moment is remind myself that I own the (coaching/mentoring) process, the client owns the issue - that way, I find I can keep the appropriate distance whilst being sufficiently engaged.

Nick Wright

31/1/2016 10:56:29 pm

Hi Filao and thanks for your encouraging feedback. I like how you described your approach so clearly and succinctly - thank you! That is how I think of respective responsibilities too. With best wishes. Nick

Mike R. Harvey

1/2/2016 09:54:53 am

Mentoring and coaching both require empathy, which is based on understanding. However, coaching, unlike mentoring, can often be best served through neutral facilitation. Otherwise, the coach is likely to deny the client the growth and development that comes from developing their own solution.

Nick Wright

1/2/2016 09:58:53 am

Hi Mike and thanks for the note. My sense is that, if we think about coaching as an approach rather than as a role, it can be a useful option as part of the mentor's wider contribution to the client's growth. What do you think? All the best. Nick

David McCuistion

1/2/2016 10:00:47 am

If one is trying to empathize, why would they want to be detached from them. Empathy doesn't happen at a distance.

Nick Wright

1/2/2016 10:05:19 am

Thanks Mike. I think that's a good question. I wouldn't advocate an absence of empathy in a coaching relationship. The challenge is how to hold the tension between empathy and detachment - in the sense of keeping enough distance to enable use to the client. As one colleague expressed it: We need to be careful that we don't step so far into the client's shoes that we inadvertently step out of our own shoes'. What do you think? All the best. Nick

Kazuyoshi Tsuyukusa

1/2/2016 10:20:13 am

Great ideas, thanks. In my case, I am clear that I'm not the one who does the work. I cannot do anything but create a space where the client does the actual change. So I will go pretty deep. Probably deeper than you would with the line drawing. Still, I am all the time aware that my job is to ask the right questions, join forces in discovering the myth and again asking questions about the "ideal" myth allowing the expected solution. On the way I'll do the clearing work to ensure that both the individuals and the organization will profit.

Nick Wright

1/2/2016 10:23:25 am

Hi Kazuyoshi and thanks for your intriguing comments. Can you say a bit more about what what 'going deep...deeper' means for you and the client and what that could look like in practice? Also, a bit about what 'clearing work' means and could look like? I'm very curious! With best wishes. Nick

Marion Darling

1/2/2016 10:20:47 am

Thank you Nick!

Nick Wright

1/2/2016 10:24:25 am

Thanks Marion. :)

Robert Hodge

1/2/2016 03:58:58 pm

Nice post. I look forward to hearing from others.
Because my early background was in systems and management before coaching, I am moving from a position from being pretty detached to being more attached. Yet, I was somewhat smart enough or blessed enough to establish boundaries before I started - boundaries between coaching and counseling, engaged as a great listener to help process thoughts without my own agenda, drawing a pretty sharp line between coaching and consulting such that if someone wanted me to engage more to tell them what they should do, it would end the coaching relationship to be a consultant. Ah, but how much to empathize? Enough to understand but not to shoulder and own the burdens. A coachee who declares me as a new friend establishes a deeper relationship yet brings open-ended expectations and burdens, not always to the benefit of the coaching relationship. Others will speak more about this topic.

Nick Wright

1/2/2016 04:08:53 pm

Thanks for sharing those insights and experiences, Rob. I think you touch on a critical point and that is about establishing and maintaining boundaries. Sometimes I find that the boundary I'm holding is within myself as well as between the client and me. In other words, there are psychological and social-psychological aspects to boundaries as well as more explicit and formal contractual ones. I like your way of re-contracting if it becomes clear that what the client is looking for is different to what you are offering in a coaching capacity. I also empathise with the challenge of what to do if the coachee starts to approach the relationship as a friendship. This has been common in my experience where people may hold multiple roles with the same people, e.g. pastoral, therapeutic, neighbours etc. or work with the same client for a long period of time. I believe that keeping the boundaries clear, working with awareness and naming it overtly if things start to change is very important. All the best. Nick

Dan Ebener

1/2/2016 09:09:53 pm

I would be careful to generalize a situation as a consultant not wanting to get overly attached to fit situations of management.

Generally speaking if a group of workers tells a manager that you is overly detached you should pay close attention to that.

Nick Wright

1/2/2016 09:11:24 pm

Hi Dan and thanks for your note. I haven't quite understood what you mean. Could you perhaps provide an example? With best wishes. Nick

Virginia Dickenson

1/2/2016 09:20:07 pm

The critical key to this is to be clear. When someone starts sharing with you, become Zen-like. Be completely committed to focusing on the other person, and be committed to helping them. Listening completely openly and detached, but with all that commitment to them.

If what they are saying is relevant to what is being taught/discussed, address it - in a way that is beneficial to everyone. It is a learning opportunity.

If it is not relevant, let them know that you completely got their communication. Validate the communication - the act of communicating. Validate their feelings as their feelings - not as the reality of the situation. And then, let them know that you either have no great solution/advice or ask them to speak with you later. Empathize.

Now, if you address empathize, address something with clarity, and they are simply not going to accept it - i.e. this is a complaint or whining - be straight. You can empathize and get their communication. I ask them if they are open to coaching - get their permission. And then, really have them get in touch with whether or not they are committed to having something positive come out of this, or if they are committed to being stuck in it. Be committed to their response - 95% of the time, they want to be supported, and once they choose that, it is a great learning opportunity. We all get stuck, right?

Exception: When someone tells you a situation that is unethical or illegal. That requires another approach entirely.

Nick Wright

1/2/2016 09:24:48 pm

Thanks, Virginia, for sharing such interesting insights from a trainer's perspective. It sounds like you are very clear about your role vis a vis the group and the boundaries between teaching, coaching or other interventions. I like your emphasis on listening to the person and on being willing to challenge where needed. With best wishes. Nick

Virginia Dickenson

2/2/2016 10:01:42 pm

Thank you, Nick!

John B May

2/2/2016 06:42:19 am

Our role as coaches is to help our coachees realise that to get the commitment of others, they must involve them.'No involvement,no commitment!'

Nick Wright

2/2/2016 09:37:52 am

Hi John. Thanks for the note. I'm curious. Are you saying the role of a coach is, fundamentally, to influence the behaviour of coachees in relation to others? I may not have understood you correctly. All the best. Nick

Ameet Mattoo

2/2/2016 06:45:45 am

Hello Nick, a very interesting topic indeed and as mentioned by others, very pertinent for internal OD consultants.

One thing that i have seen help, is to work as a pair with another OD consultant and use the clinicking process to check your stand - is it objective or have you unconsciously introjected some of the clients process.
And since the process of getting attached is usually an unconscious one, the risk of loosing neutrality and transforming into an activist is high.

Another alternative is to keep on asking yourself, whose need is it?
Whenever i have seen myself getting entangled with the client, asking myself, how am i feeling?, does it belong to me?, etc helps in getting clarity and achieving neutrality. Essentially the answer is self-awareness and that is very hard task and one can never claim to have arrived.

Nick Wright

2/2/2016 09:43:32 am

Hi Ameet. Many thanks for sharing such insightful comments. I can think of occasions where I have been drawn too far into the clients' issues, or they have triggered issues within me, where having a co-coach or co-facilitator has been incredibly useful.

As you rightly say, this sometimes happens subconsciously, out of awareness, which makes it tricky to recognise and attend to in the moment. I agree with you that developing self-awareness is very important in this...and that it is an on-going journey.

With thanks and best wishes. Nick

Lani Refiti

2/2/2016 09:45:32 pm

Great point Nick. One thing I find especially when working with technology startups is my enthusiasm and passion for technology often gets me engaged far more than what would serve the client. What I find helps me is to bring my awareness back to the present, my body, the room, what the client is saying. It's an interesting tension.

Nick Wright

2/2/2016 09:57:48 pm

Thanks Lani - and for sharing such honest reflections. I recognise the challenge you face in my own experience too. How to bring just enough to enable the client to move forward and not to allow my own enthusiasm to cross the line into what should really be the client's space. I like your idea of focusing on there present. I sometimes try to imagine stepping outside of myself and observing the conversation I'm having with the client from a different part of the room. What would I notice if observing from that place? I may then offer that observation to the client. It helps to draw us both into the here-and-now, the present moment, and to adjust our focus or how we are working together, if needed. All the best. Nick

Denis Jenkins

2/2/2016 09:46:09 pm

This can be achieved by keeping the mind at the evaluative and critical level of processing. Being the guardian of the one being involved in the experience. Directing and leading looking from a wider perspective.

Nick Wright

2/2/2016 10:00:01 pm

Thanks Denis. I think what you may be describing is what I alluded to in my note to Lani above as awareness and speaking from an 'observing' place? Do you have any examples from experience that you would be willing to share? With best wishes. Nick

Hilary Gee

2/2/2016 10:02:39 pm

It's at the borders where the most interesting work can happen, in my experience...and sometimes I hold back a bit too much and other times I cross over a bit too far. I find it very important to allow those moments to happen and then manage them. We can't get it perfect all the time...but we need to be aware of where we are and pull back again or push forward again to get into the right zone of working together. If the rapport is great, then the partners can notice and talk about the issue together. Being pulled too far (or not far enough in) can also be an indicator of emotional data that are very important pointers in the coaching relationship. Ps thanks for all the other inputs above - v useful for side thought! Best wishes to all, Hilary.

Nick Wright

2/2/2016 10:08:28 pm

Hi Hilary and many thanks for adding such insightful and useful comments. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say here. I really like your reflection on the value of noticing the 'pull' and what that could mean in the relationship.

I'm reminded of insights in psychodynamic and transactional analytical approaches about countertransference, of noticing what the client and I are evoking in each other and what that could signify, including in the client's relationships or wider systems.

All the best. Nick

Irv Rubin PhD

2/2/2016 10:10:42 pm

A swimming teacher taught me an invaluable lesson in this regard. As a reward for having finished at the top of his class [who me with a big ego!] he offered me a free lesson in life saving. As he sunk below the surface of the ocean, I did what any "caring helper" would do. I immediately swam over. Got behind him. Cupped his chin and.... YUP! After pulling me/holding me under with him for what seemed like an eternity we swam back to the beach. The lesson. Stay within earshot/easy reach, keep reminding him/her that you are there, that you really care but wait until the moment of surrender before you reach in.

Nick Wright

2/2/2016 10:15:33 pm

Thanks, Irv, for sharing such a vivid account. It made me smile! :) It reminded me of a metaphor in this blog that you may find resonates too: http://www.nick-wright.com/blog/learning-to-wonder With best wishes. Nick

Kaleel Sakakeeny

3/2/2016 09:34:09 am

Why any tension; why any line; why any preconceived role? Why any influencing?

It'll be what it'll be and it'll be for first time every time . Cheers and good topic.

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 09:35:27 am

Thanks for posing such great 'out of the box' questions, Kaleel. :) All the best. Nick

Darryl Warden

3/2/2016 09:37:52 am

Hi Nick / Steve. Agree with all of the above and 'get' the questions / challenges you are posing. My personal approach or strategy is to consider myself simply being part of the coachees journey.....and just 'going with it'. They'll take the conversation where they need it to go and (timely) reflections and observations shared along the way tends to help. Great topic for discussion. Thanks for posting. Darryl.

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 09:40:46 am

Thanks for the note, Darryl. I like the journey metaphor. You may like this blog too: http://www.nick-wright.com/blog/learning-to-wonder All the best. Nick

Jane Keep

3/2/2016 09:38:29 am

I would say engagement and connection are needed at all times. For me the difference is when we are making something about ourselves that muddies the waters - e.g. if I want recognition, or I need repeat business or to be liked or I am needy in any way then I am not observing - I am absorbing and am in the same 'soup' as everyone else is. When I stay the ever observer, noting where I get in my own and others way work is simple and purposeful. if 'self' comes into things where I want to make it about me rather than whatever is needed for the work in hand then it muddies the waters. In getting self out of the way, and being purposeful, and doing what is needed at the time - then I am fully engaged with whomever and wherever I am working. I cant work without connection and engagement of others - as fundamentally work is all about relationships and people.

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 09:46:03 am

Hi Jane and thanks for the interesting insights. Yes, I think there's an important distinction between 'self' that gets in the way and 'use of self' that can facilitate the client's process. A challenge in that is how to be sufficiently aware in the moment, how to distinguish what is me from what is the client or the client's system, and how to discern what of ourselves could best serve the client's interests. I agree that our work is all about relationships and people. It's possible to lose sight of the human-relational aspects if we become too preoccupied with agendas and techniques. All the best. Nick

David Goddin

3/2/2016 02:40:56 pm

Just reading the thread and a few things strike me. I think it's covered in some ways but I feel that creative tension is where we are engaged with the dialogue but not the clients' own solution. That phrase "Don’t play into that game" for me is spot on - we need to understand what we're working with not necessarily develop in ourselves the understanding that the client needs to perform their role. It's about being in service of your work together, not their work.

It throws up a couple of other things I'd love your thoughts on...

I think there's a narrative that we need to be empathetic (I value empathy) and yet I wonder if that could lead to collusion through over engaging. Is perhaps compassion more useful to us here than empathy?

Similarly, rapport is often seen as an important foundation yet I think if we want to keep this creative tension then trust is the actual aim and rapport is a useful product of building trust providing it doesn't compromise that creative tension?

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 02:52:59 pm

Hi David. Really interesting comments and questions, thank you. I like your expression: 'It's about being in service of your work together, not their work.' There is something for me about boundaries here.

Your question on empathy and compassion is an interesting one. I met some colleagues from a building society recently who focused strongly on building and sustaining empathy with customers. I found that fascinating.

In further exploration, it became clear that they are using the word empathy to mean something like to understand, to really understand and connect with the client's experience and what matters to them...without stepping out of role and becoming subsumed by that.

I sometimes work with a coaching organisation (3D Coaching) that proposes matching (e.g. words, phrases, posture, tone of voice) the client to build rapport and deliberately mis-matching to create a challenge or a shift in thinking.

Choosing to match and mis-match in the service of the client enables the coach to focus on building enough rapport to build confidence and trust without falling into over-empathising or collusion. Does that speak to the questions you are posing?

All the best. Nick

David Goddin

4/2/2016 12:48:21 pm

Hi Nick. Liked your response and wanted to share this to perhaps elaborate more on my thinking about empathy vs. compassion. Apologies if you've already seen it.

http://changecontinuum.passle.net/post/102bynh/empathy-how-informed-are-our-narratives

In terms of rapport, I sense that seeking rapport could be a similar "trap" sometimes in creating perhaps something towards friendship or closeness. I think "enough trust" is actually our aim and perhaps a better focus than building rapport. Great rapport and even friendship may come but that's not our aim if we are in service of the clients agenda.

Thoughts & challenge always welcome!

Best wishes, David

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 12:55:46 pm

Hi David. Thanks again for sharing such interesting comments and for the link. Very helpful. I like your concept of 'enough trust'. One of my colleagues at 3D Coaching, Claire Pedrick, puts it like this: 'How do we need to work together - or what do we need to do - so that there is enough trust between us to do what we need to do?' It has a clear pragmatic edge that I find refreshing and releasing. All the best. Nick

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 01:02:27 pm

(Post script) Here's a link to an interesting and challenging article on 'empathy': http://www.bostonreview.net/forum/paul-bloom-against-empathy Thanks to David for making the connection. Nick

Gerda Grimshaw

3/2/2016 02:59:27 pm

I am very engaging, but have to pause until emotions of the other parties whirl themselves out to continue.

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 03:04:14 pm

Thanks for your note, Gerda. Do you mean that, whilst you find it important to engage with the other person, you also find it important to allow the other person's emotional state to settle (where needed) in order to move forward with them? All the best. Nick

Prasanna Seshadri

3/2/2016 03:00:44 pm

In Vedanta philosophy, we use the term "objectivity" to mean this optimal balancing of engagement and detatchment. This objectivity is the art of maintaining absolute detatchment while relating to the world. Engagement is quite easy as we normally get involved in the discussion or conversation with the client or party with whom we have a deal, commercial or personal. Objectvity develops with practice, patience, wisdom and right attitude. Objectivity lies in maintaining a safe distance in relationship with the client so that one is able to stand apart from the problem and is able to first understand the problem, diagnose, think appropriate options or solutions and prescribe the apt remedy or effective way out of the client's problem. When we have the right sense of values with proper sense of proportion, we would ultimately achieve that objectivity essential for problem solving with any client. That is the secret of detachment when one is engaged.

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 03:14:44 pm

Hi Prasanna and thank you for sharing such a fascinating philosophical perspective. It sounds like there are a number of resonances with what we are discussing here. Objectivity (depending on how we use the word) raises some interesting questions such as how far it is possible to see things 'objectively' (as if they have a definitive reality that can be neutrally observed) and how far immersing ourselves alongside the client in the client's experience, rather than holding a distance, could bring awareness and insight to the surface.

I'm also curious about 'prescribing an apt remedy' on the basis of my own observation or diagnosis. This is certainly what we tend to look for from, say, a medical doctor where we hope they have the necessary knowledge and expertise to make a good diagnosis and to advise the best intervention on our behalf. It strikes me raising other questions when applied to, say, coaching or in situations that are more ambiguous - where there is no one 'right' solution.

I'd be interested to hear what you think about this. With best wishes. and thanks again. Nick

Prasanna Seshadri

4/2/2016 04:13:33 pm

Vedanta is a philosophy which can be applied to our practical life. It gives solutions to every kind of person regardless of their inherent nature and occupation. That way either you be a Doctor or a professional coach or a OD consultant, it covers every kind of personality in the world. The secret behind Vedanta is its emphasis on self unfoldment of the individual personality and applies to everybody regardless of their background and starting point. It has scope for every person in the world. Basically it professes a three fold path of Karma Yoga (Path of action), Bhakthi Yoga (Path of Devotion) and Gnana Yoga (Path of knowledge) in appropriate proportions depending on the personality composition or predominant nature of the individual (Whether predominantly physical (action oriented) or predominantly emotional or predominantly intellectual). It streamlines our disoriented life and refines the personality to relate to the world efficiently and objectively.

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 04:21:01 pm

Thanks Prasanna. I noticed a tension within myself when I read and reflected on your final comment: 'relate to the world efficiently and objectively'. I realise how far my own thinking, worldview and stance has been influenced by social constructionism...or I find a resonance in social constructionism with how to see and experience the world...(or both!). It means that I find the idea of relating to the world 'objectively' impossible. It's something about how we co-create our perception of reality through language, conversation, culture etc rather than observing something 'out there' that has objective definitive meaning. Are you familiar with works by, say, Kenneth Gergen or Vivien Burr? All the best. Nick

Prasanna Seshadri

5/2/2016 09:57:03 am

Sir, Life is just a chance and there are no absolute standards in the world to assay its worth. The standards that determine the quality of life are the good virtues, chaste emotions, sacrificial or service oriented actions and a selfless (egoless) attitude which one develops and practices with dedication. What really matters in life is our ultimate ideal of life. Higher and nobler the ideal, the life becomes easy cruising and worth the experiences we go through. We must work on our actions, emotions, thinking and attitude, refine them like 24 Carat Gold or pure Platinum, so that we develop our efficiency and objectivity progressively. The Truth is within us. We make ourselves or we mar ourselves. Everything we do in life are within the laws of Cause and effect. The ancient seers gave the clue that the ultimate purpose of life is seeking the Self /Godhead within. That pursuit is called Self Realization/God Consciousness. This is Vedanta in brief.

Michael Young

3/2/2016 07:13:05 pm

As a coach, aren't we 100% committed to helping the client complete their goal but as it is 'their' goal - we are detached. The client gets all the benefit from achieving their own goal, all we do is hold up the mirror so they can see who is responsible and capable at the same time.

Nik Wright

3/2/2016 07:18:20 pm

Hi Michael and thanks for the note. I agree that we work with the client to achieve the client's goal. On: 'all we do is hold up the mirror', have a glance at Ana Karakusevic's excellent blog: http://www.roffeypark.com/coaching/coaching-fundamentals-part-one-listening/ All the best. Nick

Michael Young

3/2/2016 08:17:59 pm

Hi Nick, I like the article and I agree we are definitely there to challenge. My point is that in a personal development situation is that I don't lead or influence the client. I reflect what I see and hear, at the point, with permission I may also challenge.

Veronica Verhagen

3/2/2016 07:25:29 pm

I practice self-centering before I get in contact with my clients. That allows me to tune in with their energy and thoughts, “listening between the lines” and what is really being said. It also allows me to be focus on coaching the client not the situation or the story.

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 07:29:18 pm

Hi Veronica and thanks for your note. I find that centring myself is important too. It provides a moment to breathe, focus my intention and manage (as far as I can) any interference within myself (e.g. over-enthusiasm; performance anxiety). That frees me to be present to the client, allow intuition to surface and, as you to say, to focus on the client without getting drawn into the client's story. With best wishes. Nick

Oddbjørn Haaland

3/2/2016 07:30:13 pm

Hi Guys! Very interesting subject! I would say that practicing your "Global Listening" skills is of relevance here. An essential part of this will be to avoid that your own experiences and assosiations (to similar subjects from your past) come into the "game" and start coloring your presence hence limiting "How much are you actually listening"

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 07:32:34 pm

Hi Oddbjørn! Thanks for your insights. Could you say a bit more about what you mean by 'global listening'? Yes, I agree that discerning what is our material and distinguishing it from the client's material is very important - and this is where good supervision can be very valuable. All the best. Nick

Oddbjørn Haaland

3/2/2016 08:15:44 pm

Hi Nick! Thanks for the feedback. See below reference as an example in regards to Global listening: http://www.thecoaches.com/learning-hub/fundamentals/res/FUN-Topics/FUN-Co-Active-Coaching-Skills-Listening.pdf.

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 08:16:34 pm

Many thanks, Oddbjørn. I'll take a look! All the best. Nick

Michael Duffy

3/2/2016 08:06:05 pm

really interesting question this ...and some great insights around it..while i understand the phrases "disengaged enough" and " degree of detachment" in this context, and the value of being able to remain in a position to see opportunities for progress, within the coaching relationship, we shouldn't disregard the opportunity to immerse ourselves within the culture..environment or any aspect of the clients world. As coaches, we can do this, see the clients world in graphic detail thus understanding their world better. ...sometimes the solution is to fall into " their trap" but bring them with you ...and have the awareness and the abilities to reframe it for them so they can see it more vividly ...the solution to every clients desired outcome ....is the client themselves.

Nick Wright

3/2/2016 08:14:20 pm

Hi Michael and thanks for posing such an interesting challenge. It sounds to me as if we are touching on similar territory here. To be immersed in the client's world can provide valuable insight and experience. There's something about being-with that can be very powerful for both parties, what emerges into awareness and the dynamic between them. At the same time, there is always a question of how the client experiences their own context (which may be different to how I experience it) and how to stay sufficiently aware in that moment - for which we could use the word 'detached' - to enable the client to reframe it or, in some way, see it more vividly. What do you think? I like your closing statement - the solution is the clients themselves. All the best. Nick

David Matis

4/2/2016 10:32:29 am

Thanks for this useful advice!

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 10:33:17 am

You are very welcome. Thanks David!

William "Bill" Van Lente, MBA, PsyD

4/2/2016 10:43:05 am

WOW, thanks Nick and Erv for sharing. I think you have very succinctly set out a key dynamic or polarity we must manage in coaching relationships. On the one hand, we can seem disinterested, unconnected to the client and her/his situation. At the other extreme, we can lose objectivity, even become co-dependent and in a worse case enable transference, even counter-transference. I agree with others, that is a matter of managing the energy in the polarity or paradox, and can be more difficult for internals than independent coaches/consultants. I can acknowledge being challenged by it more as an internal. One key OD principle of the coaching is in the context of a larger change initiative is that the client is the organization, the executive being coached a key client contact, yet not the total or only client. Another key principle is being clear about differentiating coaching from psychotherapy, and if the latter is needed, making a referral.

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 10:45:36 am

Hi Bill. Thanks for summarising the core issues so clearly and concisely. Brilliant! With best wishes. Nick

William "Bill" Van Lente, MBA, PsyD

4/2/2016 09:28:10 pm

You are very welcome, Nick. Happy to engage, contribute, and learn from the dialogue. One additional thought comes to mind, a principle advocated by a coaching master, Marshall Goldsmith, in a seminar in which I was fortunate to be a participant. Marshall contends that if the executive being considered for coaching has ethical behavior issues, coaching is not likely to help and is not the solution. Marshall stated in so many words, "Executives with ethical behavior issues do not need to be coached, they need to be fired." Hopefully, I'm doing justice to what I recall Marshall espousing in that principle and so much more from a day with Marshall and his writings (e.g., "What got you here won't get you there") I can say that any time I have tried to coach an executive with ethical behavior issues, it did little if any lasting good, and I ended up getting burned.

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 09:33:42 pm

Hi Bill and thanks for sharing more thought-provoking insights. It sounds like there is something about how we contract with clients around what issues we will work on together...and how we recontract (whatever that might mean) if significant ethical - or, for that matter, legal - issues arise. This entails sufficient detachment to notice these issues if and when they do arise and to address them rather than feeling drawn along by or into them? All the best. Nick

Guy Kristof

4/2/2016 10:47:19 am

These are some good points that are being raised here.

In my own experience with this sort of situation, I find that no two situations are alike. I also think that individuals in our current corporate environment who possess the gift of "Emotional Intelligence" are becoming something of an "endangered species", making such engagements with employees somewhat uncommon and half-hearted, something that can create more cynical employees who view such engagements as a corporate sponsored farce, rather than something more positive and, well, engaging.

What is your experience with what you see "out there"? Am I wrong?

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 10:54:55 am

Hi Guy and thanks for posing an interesting question. I meet people from organisations who say people only pay lip-service to corporate values...assuming, of course, that they know what the values are! I also meet people where the opposite experience is true.

It sounds like you are noticing situations where, perhaps, values-related behaviours are sometimes displayed at a surface level but more as a technique than from heartfelt conviction. People pick that up intuitively and it creates dissonance, disengagement, cynicism.

In a coaching context, it raises the importance of being authentic and respectful as a human being with another human being. It's not only about clever insights and skills. At heart, it's about a relationship, albeit at times a complex relationship.

Does that resonate? All the best. Nick

Kirsten Nicholl

4/2/2016 10:56:37 am

Hi Nick - I love your opening line: "Just enough". For me this tension is perhaps the cornerstone of every coaching interaction and situation and it is a balancing act that I believe holds immense value in terms of assisting a client to create their desired outcome - if we're too close and associating into their story then we can't assist them to see options outside of their known, and conversely if we are too detached and feel/show too little empathy with them and their needs and situation, then of course we are unable to connect with them and thereby anything we say or do will hold little if any value to them because they will unconsciously (or consciously) feel that you can't relate to them (and vice versa). In my opinion the key is focus on my intention to serve them above all and how I can best do this is by walking this fine line.

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 10:57:47 am

Thanks Kirsten. I think you expressed that beautifully! All the best. Nick

David Bayne

4/2/2016 11:19:29 am

Mindfulness...comes to mind when I read your article Nick. That word just popped into my head. And to be mindful when in a pressured situation means you must have your own "self mastery" together. A great coach will be in "flow" with any situation if they have "self Mastery" sounds like you have it together. Good work.

Kind Regards

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 11:25:42 am

Hi David and thanks for your note. Yes, I think there are connections insofar as mindfulness connects with awareness in the moment. I had a go at writing a short blog that speaks to what I try to focus on, to hear, to be aware of: http://www.nick-wright.com/blog/listening-for-a-voice Let me know if anything in that resonates for you too?

I would love to say that I am 'in flow' with every situation but it wouldn't be true for me. Sometimes I'm more in flow than at other times. I try to be aware of my degree of in-flowness (if that's a word!) in the here-and-now moment...which is sometimes a challenge...and to pay attention to what within me, or the client, or the system could be arising as 'interference'...or as useful data.

With thanks for your encouragement. Best wishes. Nick

Frankie Doiron, PCC, BCC

4/2/2016 11:26:52 am

Excellent response, David! Working and living more mindfully would do just that.

David Bayne

4/2/2016 11:27:30 am

Thanks Frankie...it's a daily challenge and one we as coaches must continually keep ourselves accountable for if we are to be great coaches.
Thanks

David Bayne

5/2/2016 09:36:23 am

Well Nick a great coach is one who is humble and knows he/she has faults and doesn't hide them. I'd like to challenge any coach who says he or she has found the holy grail because i'd like to see it! The great thing about coaching is while we continually teach others we are learning ourselves. I have been working on my self mastery coaching lessons online over the last few weeks and it's funny as I work through them I realise what I am not doing and start doing it again. That's coaching and mindfulness all wrapped up! I'll check out your link.

Julie Genney

5/2/2016 02:17:35 pm

Agreed David, a coach who has all the answers is dangerous, we all have our blind spots! For me is still as basic as perspectives, we all have different ones, mine is to help and support my coachee to understand their own and empower themselves to make their change. It's still why I love watching as a coach an individual having a moment of self revelation, because it's not down to me, and it doesn't have to be what I expect, it's all about them...

Lucia Berdini

4/2/2016 11:56:07 am

Thinking about that exactly this morning! Thank you! As a Laughter Coach i tend to immerse my self in the situation a little bit too much.

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 11:57:43 am

Hi Lucia.You are very good at this. You made me smile as I read your note! :) I love the sound of laughter coaching. I'm very curious: what is it and how to you approach it in practice? All the best. Nick

Ian Henderson

4/2/2016 12:40:21 pm

Great post as ever Nick. It's a real challenge and I've sometimes got it wrong. I find that doing 'content free' coaching sessions to be interesting, but equally challenging.

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 12:42:39 pm

Hi Ian and thanks for your encouraging feedback. I too have sometimes got it wrong...it can feel like walking a tightrope! 'Content free' is an interesting idea. Say a bit more about it and what challenges you find in it? All the best. Nick

Ian Henderson

4/2/2016 04:22:40 pm

Hi Nick. Pretty much what it says on the tin really. The conversation stays totally away from the issue the person is having and their internal dialogue is held at that level. You use very similar coaching questions but leaving out specifics. It helps me to stay focused on my listening and questions. The downside is that occasionally I do find myself wondering what the problem might be so I have started to hallucinate from time to time!!

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 04:25:07 pm

Lol, Ian. Your hallucinations may well be a product of your vivid and creative imagination - a real gift. :) All the best. Nick

Lysanne Bruneau ACC, CHRP/CRHA

4/2/2016 01:06:36 pm

Empathy is sometimes hard to understand for people who try to practice it. This post is a nice and easy formula to share with them.

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 01:07:13 pm

Hi Lysanne and thanks for your encouraging feedback. I would be interested to hear what responses you may receive. Here's an interesting and provocative blog on the topic of empathy: http://www.bostonreview.net/forum/paul-bloom-against-empathy Let me know what you think? All the best. Nick

Annie Campbell

4/2/2016 03:45:45 pm

Thanks Nick and everyone for your insight and wisdom. I appreciate the shared approaches and new learning #earlymorninginspiration thank you!

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 03:47:06 pm

Thanks for your encouragement, Annie. Yes, I'm really appreciating and learning from the insights and ideas that others are willing to share in this conversation too. Very stimulating! All the best. Nick

Clarisse Benharoche

4/2/2016 07:05:06 pm

Hello to the Group,
And thank you all for these great insights. From what I can read in all your comments, it feels like there is also a question of our own personality and philosophy of practice at play, on top of our professional common ground. As mentioned, it's important to remember the distinction between 'self' and to what extend we go for our customers (I also like the image of the journey and use it too). I believe this is a question of mindset, hence why it is important to me for example, to prepare mentally before each session with a client. by reading my notes from the previous sessions, I put myself back into the customer's "world" just to make sure I can pounder between the two: I remain my 'self', yet being able to empathise more with my customer. I believe it is a question of finding what works for each of us and not a "one size fits all" solution.
What do you think?

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 07:11:17 pm

Hi Clarisse and thanks for posting such interesting comments. I think you are right that our practice, and what sense we make of it, ourselves, the client and what is happening between us, are reflective of an underlying philosophy. If we are aware of what philosophy we are adhering to, by conscious choice or otherwise, we can hold it up to examination and critique. I agree with your focus on mindset too, although I think of mindset as a cognitive stance and I wonder if there are other factors at play too, including those that lie in the subconscious, out of awareness. What do you think? All the best. Nick

Denise Harris

4/2/2016 09:15:42 pm

Hi I think there is a very important point that you make Nick about 'becoming too immersed in the institutional influences. There is a very real risk that we become oblivious to the culture and the 'way things are done around here' without being aware of the impact that is having on our thinking or responses. I am particularly conscious of this when working within my own organisation, but it could happen even as an external coach. The metaphor of the fish being the last to notice the water it is swimming in is relevant here. I guess that attending to that in supervision is good practice but also developing a reflexive questioning about our reactions, language and thoughts would be helpful.

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 09:20:57 pm

Thanks for posting such helpful comments, Denise. Yes, I think one of the challenges of culture is that much of what we believe, which underlies the 'way things are done around here', is subconscious - that is, out of our awareness. You may find this previous short blog on the topic interesting: http://www.nick-wright.com/blog/what-is-culture. I like your emphasis on reflexive questioning. I find it useful to visit different cultures and organisations and to network with people who hold contrasting views to try to keep myself personally and culturally 'awake'. With best wishes. Nick

Jill Brown

4/2/2016 09:24:46 pm

Insightful and timely (for me!) post. Struck a cord for something I've been grappling with...and made me feel a lot better about it. I because I have reached the same conclusion. 😊

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 09:26:46 pm

Hi Jill and thanks for posting such encouraging feedback. That is great to hear. Judging by the number of and depth of comments this blog has received, it looks like it's an issue that many of us grapple with! With best wishes. Nick

Tonya Haynes

4/2/2016 09:34:53 pm

@Nick Wright Awesome and sage advice! And something I have been struggling with especially as I've moved into my own consulting practice. Thanks for sharing!

Nick Wright

4/2/2016 09:36:39 pm

Many thanks, Tonya. I'm encouraged to hear it has been useful. I'd be interested to hear more about how you apply it to your consulting practice. All the best. Nick

Yong Kiat Peter Seah

5/2/2016 09:38:00 am

Hi Nick thanks for the sharing. I shared the same view that "just enough" is the appropriate balance between engaging and disengaging as OD professional. As we keep our "process observer" role, we will also be able to keep away from our "value biases" which may get into the way if we are too engage with our clients and their issues.

Nick Wright

5/2/2016 09:43:22 am

Hi Yong and thanks for the note. I agree with your emphasis on the process observer role and the importance of being aware of our value biases. That means that, when operating in coach or OD consultant mode, I need to pay attention to my own internal process (including my values), the client's process, the dynamic (process) between us and influences (e.g. previous experiences, culture) outside of our relationship that impact on us and it. Given the challenges of holding that place and space, I find it very useful to meet periodically with an external supervisor who is able to help me inquire into and challenge my assumptions and practice. With best wishes. Nick

Anne Barclay

5/2/2016 09:44:46 am

Jane's comments reinforce the important need to focus the coaches' energy on the other person at all times. Also having a clear process/methodology to follow as a coach helps. This needs to be balanced at all times with flexibility to be responsive to the needs that arise along the way and remaining clear on the outcomes sought.

Nick Wright

5/2/2016 09:51:43 am

Hi Anne and thanks for your stimulating comments. I agree with you and Jane that we need to focus our attention on the client. This enables us to avoid becoming overly distracted or preoccupied with the client's 'story'. In order to do this, I imagine myself sitting with a client at a table. As the client lays out their story on the metaphorical table, I try to hold the story in peripheral vision whilst holding my focus on the client. One of the challenges of focusing all of my energy on the client is that I may miss important and significant data, e.g. what is going on within me and what may be going on in the client's wider system, culture and environment. I tried to explain this in another short blog: http://www.nick-wright.com/blog/listening-for-a-voice I agree with you that a coaching process/methodology can be very valuable whilst, as you say, being flexible in the moment. In my view, the ability to be flexible demands an ability to retain sufficient detachment to observe the process, as well as the client, in order to make those judgement calls in the moment. Let me know what you think? All the best. Nick

Jane Keep

5/2/2016 09:52:49 am

...and to add - getting self out of the way isn't self-less - it is about us truly taking deep care of ourselves in every way, honouring and appreciating ourselves as we go about our day so that we are nourished and vital and ready for each day - then and only then can we truly get self out of the way and be of service to others whilst standing on our own solid foundation. This supports us to want to connect and engage with everyone we meet including in the shops, post office etc - as naturally we actually want to connect, look people in the eye, be with people, and engage with them. We love working, love people, love serving others innately - its only that we haven't taken care of ourselves, haven't appreciated ourselves, and have let the outer world affect us (e.g. the hurts we carry etc) that affects our love for life.

Banya Barua

5/2/2016 09:54:40 am

Clarity of ones role, responsibility, its boundaries, its objective and limitations help in creating balance between engagement and detachment. Its a mind discipline.

Nick Wright

5/2/2016 09:55:13 am

I agree, Banya. With best wishes. Nick

Lani Refiti

5/2/2016 09:57:38 am

Prasanna et al - some interesting and useful comments for my own practice with clients. A continental philosophical construct that is also useful and espoused in Gestalt practice is phenomenology. How to observe the phenomena using a framework that allows you to observe the experience as much as possible without letting projections and presuppositions have too great an influence.

Nick Wright

5/2/2016 10:01:03 am

Hi Lani. Thanks for sharing that insight from Gestalt. In my experience, phenomenology involves experiencing and observing. In order to do this well, we need to learn to engage (experience) and disengage (observe) - both the same time...and therein lies the challenge! All the best. Nick

Gerard F Hurley CAE

5/2/2016 04:04:01 pm

This is a multi-layered issue influenced by such keys as governance culture, planning, organization effectiveness/competitive position, and so much more. In broad strokes, however, there should be deep engagement at the front end when rational strategic and operating plans, and budgets, with clarity, specifics and metrics, are agreed upon and put into play. Once underway, assuming competency, the leader should be able to monitor via periodic reports conveyed, as possible, as being "on plan, or better" (little attention required) or "not on plan by a factor of X,"(which may require immediate attention). Without metrics, dates, interim targets, etc., the CEO must submit to a data dump every time he/she wants to be "filled with confidence."

Nick Wright

5/2/2016 04:16:45 pm

Hi Gerard and thanks for the note. I think I'm hearing you say that, in leading a business, there are times and situations in which the CEO needs to be thoroughly engaged with others and, at others, to be sufficiently disengaged to maintain an overview and trust without micro-managing others. Have I understood you correctly? With thanks. Nick

Janette Gatui

5/2/2016 05:08:38 pm

Really great article I always love your approach to serving clients and what you said actually goes for more than just serving others... That is the secret to approaching even our individual challenges in life and in business. Anytime we get too embedded in our perceived obstacles and challenges we loose the power to effect change so I take your suggesting as something that is valid for my clients as well as my own journey in creating a successful lifestyle ;-)

Nick Wright

5/2/2016 05:12:51 pm

Hi Janette. Thanks for your kind and encouraging feedback. I hadn't really considered that aspect in this conversation...how easily I can become bogged down in my own 'stuff' in life and how important it is, therefore, to practice a degree of detachment from myself in order to live a healthy and successful life. This links well for me with ideas of reflection, awareness and choice - and prayer and mindfulness. Great food for thought. :) With best wishes. Nick

Craig Camamile

6/2/2016 12:19:42 pm

A great question Nick and a very important one for coaches, facilitators, consultants, psychologists - anyone really who has the privilege of working with people and groups. The risks of projection, transference, collusion or seduction are ever present (we're all human) and can derail us from our professional role. Being clear about our role, purpose and intention is critical when working with our clients. Holding to our purpose and intention while we use our skills in developing and deepening our relationship with those we work with, to my mind, is a very powerful, and ethically essential combination. Tracking our processes, responses and impacts during and across sessions allows us to fine tune and adjust to the moments and take on the role that our clients have engaged us to play. Regular professional supervision is also an essential and rewarding way for practitioners to debrief and understand and strengthen our practice, not get lost in others' stories (or our own) and avoid complacency. It's also a great way to appreciate the work we do and to respect the inherently sensitive nature of the work we do with others in a confidential and 'well held' way. A great topic and question Nick - thanks for posting it!

Nick Wright

6/2/2016 12:26:59 pm

Hi Craig. Thanks for your affirming feedback. Yes, I think people in a whole range of people-related professions face this tension. I like your emphasis on starting with a clear purpose and intention which allows us then to fine tune as the conversation and relationship progresses. It's like working from a firm foundation that allows us to be flexible without losing our footing. I liked your mention of the risk of getting lost in our own stories too. If a person shares something that triggers e.g. memories, ideas, questions or imagination within us, that can become a distraction or interference. Supervision can help us learn to grow in awareness and use this type of material as countertransference, thereby adding insight and value to the work with the client without getting derailed by it. With thanks again. All the best. Nick

Jennifer Tabary

6/2/2016 12:52:38 pm

Thanks for the 3 simple yet key elements to pay attention to. This came at a time when I was asking myself the same questions that prompted you to share your experience with other OD professionals. Thanks so much, Nick. Simple and clear!

Nick Wright

6/2/2016 12:53:45 pm

Thanks Jennifer. As my mentor often says: these things are simple - but not always easy! All the best. Nick

Katrina Goff

6/2/2016 03:50:26 pm

This is a very useful article for coaches. Thank you for your wisdom.

Nick Wright

6/2/2016 03:51:14 pm

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, Katrina. All the best. Nick

Mike Harvey

6/2/2016 03:52:54 pm

I could not agree more. My first coaching mentor taught me that the Cardinal Rule of coaching is "It's not about me." When I'm coaching, the client owns both the problem AND the solution, while I own the process that helps them come to resolution.

Nick Wright

6/2/2016 03:58:14 pm

Hi Mike. Thanks for the note. Yes, the power of coaching lies in what the client discovers for themselves with the coach acting as facilitator of that process. In my experience, the client is involved in facilitating their own development too. At best, it's like an elegant dance between coach and client that, somehow, enables something magic and tranformative to appear. All the best. Nick

Steve Short

6/2/2016 04:04:59 pm

Nick, thanks for sharing this - it's really useful. As I read it it struck me the key is to genuinely care for the person I'm coaching - which will help me to consciously maintain that 'professional distance' so that I can be the most use to them.

Nick Wright

6/2/2016 04:07:44 pm

Hi Steve and thanks for the note. Yes, I think that's important. If I care for the client, for what is in his or her best interest, it means I will focus on what is most useful for the client ( - something that I need to discuss and contract with the client - ) which could be different to trying to be 'helpful' whether it serves the client's best interests or not. All the best. Nick

David Harris

16/2/2016 08:48:38 pm

Hi Steve...Yes..!!! that can be experience of many. Sometimes the muddy waters of what is mentoring and what is coaching etc don't help, so clarifying and agreeing the purpose of each can be helpful and I think essential.
I believe if you understand the role its always best to point people in the right direction, show them where to go, but restrain from telling them what to see
Regards David

Steve Levin

6/2/2016 10:03:07 pm

I agree it's a challenging and delightful dance. Yet I'm at my best, as a coach or OD consultant, when I am BOTH fully engaged and fully unattached, vs. a little bit of each. To me, words like "balance" and "just enough" suggest a kind of tentativeness. One foot in, one foot out. On my best days, I am actually "all in" as a thought partner, fully immersed in their thinking and tuned into their emotional flow. At the same time, I bring fresh, detached perspective, rising out of entanglements of their system and modeling how to interrupt the drift of habitual thinking.

Yes, there is a risk that I'll lose my footing and fall into their system. It happens. But more often, I feel more fully alive and bring more energy and insight than when I'm hovering at the boundary.

This is the difference between holding the tension between two complementary forces, vs. compromising between the two. Does anyone else resonate with this as a "both/and" at the same time, vs. a balancing act?

Nick Wright

6/2/2016 10:08:20 pm

Hi Steve and thanks for the stimulating challenge. I understand what you mean by words like balance. There's a struggle to find language here that best describes a complex professional and relational dynamic. When I think of 'just enough', it doesn't carry that sense of tentativeness for me, as if hovering on the boundary of something. It's something about how the 'all in' is experienced and exercised. I'll be interested to hear what others thing. Thanks again and all the best. Nick

Nilanjana Sanyal

7/2/2016 01:38:05 pm

Thanks Nick for sharing such valuable information.

Nick Wright

7/2/2016 01:39:27 pm

Thanks for your affirming feedback, Nilanjana. With best wishes. Nick

Jim Mondry

7/2/2016 08:30:13 pm

Hi Nick, this is a great article - a well told story, with a really powerful point. Thanks for sharing it. I think the only thing I would add, is that finding the "correct" balance between engagement and detachment is a personal style issue: some people will do well with a little more engagement, others with a little more detachment (also, it depends on the needs of the client), and finding that balance is a matter of being willing to try different things out as a coach - to take your own risks of failure (and occasionally failing) on seeing where it feels right to live in that tension.

Nick Wright

7/2/2016 08:37:45 pm

Hi Jim and thanks for posting such thought-provoking comments. It is certainly true to say that some people lean further into the client's story and material than others do and perhaps that's sometimes a reflection of personal style. I agree that the needs of the client are an important consideration which I would place alongside what we and the client agree to contract around respective goals, roles, boundaries etc. I like your point about taking risks. These tensions are sometimes harder to hold than at other times and we need to be willing to 'fail' and learn in order to grow and move forward. All the best. Nick

Toni L Schuler

7/2/2016 08:38:50 pm

Thank you for such a great article with some powerful points! You have helped answer a couple questions I have asked myself about how to handle certain situations. I look forward to reading more of your articles in the future.

Nick Wright

7/2/2016 08:39:34 pm

Many thanks, Toni. That is encouraging to hear! All the best. Nick

Caroline Paltin

7/2/2016 08:42:05 pm

This is an interesting way to view the matter of engagement, however my training and the span of my clinical practice has been in the work of relational Gestalt therapy and most of my training was with my great friend and colleague Erv Polster and his late wife Miriam and detachment from the client experience was not at all a goal. Perhaps in your definition it may fall more closely to the a gestalt concept of confluence, where integrity of the individuals is lost in the union, but detachment from the experience of person to person or person to group contact would diminish the therapist's ability to join with and understand the experience the two are attempting to know. It is a given that my very existence as a separate being creates an inability to be completely a part of the others' separateness, and so the work of the therapist is to find relatedness and contact not detachment. This was a key differentiation between Gestalt snd the Analytic assumption. That being said there is Polster's attention to loosening and tightening of therapeutic sequences which create moments of softening or deepening of the intensity of the engagement. And ultimately perhaps it should be noted that the client is in a constant flux with regard to her own openness to engagement and can hold a formidable pose of deflective disengagement in response to the therapist's quest and curiosity to know her.

Nick Wright

7/2/2016 08:51:44 pm

Hi Caroline and thanks for posing such a stimulating and interesting challenge. Yes, the kind of detachment I have in mind enables the coach to avoid confluence (in the Gestalt sense of the word). A Gestalt therapist I worked with used to put it like this: 'Be careful that you don't step so far into the client's shoes that you step out of your own shoes.' So it's something about creating meaningful and experiential contact (in the Gestalt sense) with the other person without becoming subsumed in their experience. The intention is that the contact has potential for a catalytic (and sometimes cathartic) effect, raising awareness and movement in the client and in the dynamic between coach and client. Does that resonate with what you are describing here? I sometimes struggle to find language to express such things that are felt tensions in a personal and inter-personal context but not easily described or differentiated in words. With best wishes. Nick

Linda Germishuizen

8/2/2016 09:11:42 am

Hi Nick I was just wondering if the engagement does not come from the connection one makes with the person at a relationship level but the detachment more from a mental analytical space?

Nick Wright

8/2/2016 09:14:32 am

Hi Linda. That's a good question. A question back: if what you have proposed as a possibility is true, how would it influence how you work with the client and handle the tension? What do others think? All the best. Nick

Dean Bennett

8/2/2016 09:58:07 am

Just to add in another thought to the useful ones so far. One way I approach this balance of engagement and detachment is by maintaining a mindset of curiosity about the situation. This allows me to engage and explore the situation from a number of angles, pose questions, feedback to clients etc. whist being able to stay outside of the story. I also find this approach helps me to change perspectives more easily.

Nick Wright

8/2/2016 10:06:35 am

Hi Dean and thanks for the note. I like your emphasis on a spirit of curiosity. It enables us to be open-minded and inquiring. One challenge of curiosity is that it can lead us too far into the client's story (I'm very curious...tell me more about that.') So, for me, its something about curiosity with awareness - the ability to notice what is happening in the here-and-now - including what is happening for me as coach/consultant and between the client and me: and then I can be curious about what that could mean or represent - including in the wider system (e.g. culture; organisation). In that sense, I include myself in the situation that I am interested to explore with the client. There are interesting insights along these lines in Gestalt, including paying attention to the 'field' as total context, environment or experience - of which I am a part too. Let me know if that resonates? All the best. Nick

Dean Bennett

8/2/2016 11:06:56 am

I agree with you and there is a danger you move from being curious about what is happening into being concerned or solution orientated as the next step. In a way you could see this as might a doctor who is interested in the condition and what can be done as a way of helping the patient, rather than becoming too engaged with the patient as an individual. I come from a mindfulness approach in this (sadly an overused term at present) being curious about what is there; 'moment-to-moment, non-judgemental awareness' (Kabat-Zinn 2006), or 'awareness of present experience, with acceptance' (Germer, Siegel, & Fulton, 2005). In this way, or through this practice, I can get some way to overcoming, or at least being more aware of, the danger as you highlight of it leading us into the story. So yes your comment definitely resonates.

Nick Wright

8/2/2016 11:09:41 am

Hi Dean. Thanks for the note and the mindfulness references. It strikes me that is's really important to be clear about our role and intention in these situations, as well as any interventions we may choose to make with the client, and to contract (or re-contract as needed) accordingly with the client. With best wishes. Nick

Clare Norman

8/2/2016 10:50:24 am

Wow, you've stimulated a lot of responses Nick. This tension feels like it can be addressed through "keeping responsibility in the middle" (3d coaching), where I, the coach or OD facilitator, am responsible for holding the process in a way that meets the clients contracted needs, and the client is responsible for their content and where they want to go with that. I stay out of their content, unless they invite us to work with it. Does that resonate?

Nick Wright

8/2/2016 11:20:50 am

Hi Clare. Yes, what I'm noticing from the number of responses is that this is a topic, an issue, a tension that people involved in wide-ranging people and OD-related fields experience and want to find useful ways to handle or resolve. I agree with you about contracting and this is an area where I see 3D Coaching's approach excelling. (I have to declare here for transparency that I, like you, work with 3D as a coach/trainer!). Simple contracting questions such as 'What are we here to do?' and 'How shall we do this?' can be very powerful indeed and help both coach and client to stay in agreed roles and to approach the client's issues in a way that the client finds most useful. With best wishes - and hope to see you soon! Nick

Trudy-Ann James Linton

8/2/2016 03:50:43 pm

Thank you for your thoughts Nick. A consultant and I were having this very conversation last week. You would think it would be easy to keep the lines and boundaries clear. Could it be that the longer you are engaged in a project, the harder it is to keep things separate?

Nick Wright

8/2/2016 03:51:22 pm

Hi Trudy. Good question. In my experience, the advantages of being involved over a long period of time is that the consultant is able e.g. to build relationships and trust as well as, in principle, to understand the organisation better. The disadvantages include risk of becoming inculturated to the degree that the consultant loses their distinctive perspective or to become so embedded in relationships that it becomes harder to challenge, e.g. in case it is perceived as disloyal. Does that connect with your experience too? All the best. Nick

Leona Jones-Gervase, M.S. Ed., CPC, ELI-MP

8/2/2016 09:08:11 pm

This is useful for coaches from any niche. Thank you.

Nick Wright

8/2/2016 09:08:50 pm

Thanks Leona. I hope so! With best wishes. Nick

Trena Anderson

9/2/2016 09:17:49 pm

I love your question! And I love hearing your underlying awareness to each situation... I'm hearing you share that 'being embedded' in anyone else's experience is not a contribution to neither you nor your client. And I also hear your awareness of where perhaps you may have put up barriers in order to remain sufficiently detached or were you simply aware of someone else's point of view in that moment? What if contact is connection and awareness offered in the essence of allowance and acceptance of another choice and includes the offering in the form of a question? What if the value of who you be is simply you in your willingness to show up and connect? And what if that invitation is your gift in every moment? And I appreciate the invitation you offered me in the choice of sharing! Thank you!

Nick Wright

9/2/2016 09:27:07 pm

Hi Trena and thanks for your affirming feedback. I think you pose some interesting observations and questions. To be honest, I don't think of myself putting up barriers. That sounds too strong. It's more about establishing contact (in the Gestalt sense) with the client - which we could call engagement - and, at the same time, to be aware of myself as separate to the client and the client's material which avoids confluence (again, in the Gestalt sense of the word). So it's something for me about genuine contact, good quality contact, whilst still holding awareness in that space and relationship. I hope that makes sense. I like your reflections around allowance, acceptance and choice and your evocative imagery around invitation and gift. Thank you for sharing! With best wishes. Nick

David Harris

10/2/2016 06:04:30 pm

An interesting article very useful... I've been working on a recent project relating to mentoring, it becomes evident that there is a need to find the balance between the empathy and sympathy aspects of the relationship.. gaining the right perspective and clarifying perception is so crucial, and is more often or not achieved by 'standing outside of square'.

Nick Wright

10/2/2016 06:13:05 pm

Thanks David. The mentoring question is an interesting one. If we think of coaching in its broadest terms as something like, 'help you think through for yourself' and mentoring as something like 'add what I know to what you know', it can help us work through our stance and role in a particular relationship. Perhaps, given that mentors' focus is on content as well as process, mentors are more likely than coaches to find themselves drawn too far into content and, therefore, miss the corresponding need to 'stand outside the square' in order to best serve the mentee's learning and development needs. Does that resonate with what you experience? All the best. Nick

Dominic Kamau

12/2/2016 11:53:51 am

Absolutely great discussion. I would add also that the destination of both sides is important. What is it that you want to see? What role can you play?

Nick Wright

12/2/2016 12:00:53 pm

Hi Dominic and thanks for the encouragement. I think your comment about 'both sides' is very important - it's key to understanding what the relationship is and to what coach and client will contract around. 'What is it that you want to see?' and 'What role can you play?' are great contracting questions. I like using very similar questions: 'What are we here to do?' and 'How shall we do this?' They raise implicit assumptions and expectations to the surface, provide clarity and focus and enable coach and client to discuss and reach agreement before stepping forward. All the best. Nick

Mark Hollern

15/2/2016 09:52:00 pm

Nick, all, in addressing the coaching and group consulting examples, I think it's also a question of "contracting" and "boundaries," as well as having done your own work and knowing (being aware of) whose work it is that needs to be done in any given moment. When consulting (as an internal or external), mutual clarity must be agreed upon as to the objectives of the assignment and the role of the consultant and client (contract). Slippery slopes will be avoided and re-contracting is certainly OK. Doing ones own personal work (T-group experience, therapy, receiving coaching, doing in-depth experiential OD training) helps one see and navigate boundaries between self and other so that compassion and empathy can be practiced without merging with the other, projecting, etc., thereby clearly seeing and being skilled in maintaining boundaries. In my view, the intervener, in the role of consultant, is never a member of the client system; but, a team member can be an intervener.

Nick Wright

15/2/2016 09:58:55 pm

Hi Mark and thanks for the thoughtful comments. I think you expressed a core issue well as, 'being aware of whose work it is that needs to be done in any given moment.' This is particularly the case when a client expresses experiences that resonate with those of the coach or OD practitioner. There is a risk of confluence or blurring of experiences and boundaries. This is, of course, one of the challenges for a consultant that works as part of a system or with a system over a period of time. I agree too that contracting (and re-contracting where needed) is critical. With best wishes. Nick

Suman Singh

18/2/2016 04:43:47 pm

i Nick, I am in the middle of writing a paper on how as a facilitator and a coach, we need to draw the boundaries. A very important cornerstone in is to lead the learner or an organisation to a point of sensitization and not to an action. The learner discovers and decides on his path thereafter. Effective processing increases the level of awareness to make effective choices. Using “awareness elevator” is an amazing process in itself.

Let “A Daniel come to judgment” and also use it as deem fit. Any piece of advice or a judgments are avoided, however, it is very difficult to refrain the same.

Nick Wright

18/2/2016 04:46:18 pm

Hi Suman and thanks for the note. What you are describing here has strong resonances with a Gestalt approach. Are you familiar with it, e.g. the Gestalt Cycle of Experience? I haven't heard of an 'awareness elevator' before. What does it entail in practice? All the best with writing your paper. Nick

Suman Singh

24/2/2016 09:42:38 am

Nick, I have read very briefly about the Gestalt Approach which too leads to the realization through sensitization. Awareness elevator is a term which I use for processing in coaching and facilitation. As coaches and facilitators the onus of making the participant lead to awareness of self, deepen the same and finally to an action which is their own plan and not implanted.

العاب طبخ link

25/10/2016 06:16:21 pm

This is very good topic i liked my friend good working brother this is amazing information.

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