Spirit

9/7/2021

‘You don’t hire for skills, you hire for attitude. You can always teach skills.' (Simon Sinek)

Richard looked for spirit, talent and potential. Perhaps surprisingly, this wasn’t first and foremost about knowledge, skills and experience. It was about attitude, character and engagement. Get the right people on board, the right team in place, and almost anything becomes possible. This made interviews intriguing. One person would try hard to impress based on what they had done and achieved. Another would convey humility and courage: ‘I’ll do whatever it takes to succeed.’ If the spirit was genuine, the sentiment was real, the latter person could leave with a good job offer.

It made performance conversations interesting too. Rather than ‘I’ve done this, or that’, it focused on spirit and contribution. ‘This is what I’ve made possible, including for others. This is what I’ve learned, including from others. This is how I aim to develop, and to enable others. These are the steps I’ll take, alongside others.’ People took ownership of their own performance, recognised their interdependence with and impact on others and proactively sought authentic feedback: ‘What do I do well? What would most improve my contribution in future? How can I do this better next time?’

This Richard took a chance on me too and invited me into his leadership team at a global Christian non-governmental organisation (NGO). He gave me a gift – Stephen Covey’s ‘The Speed of Trust’ – to signal his trust in me. That small gesture inspired me deeply and challenged me to reflect critically on my own spirit and practice. I created a simple grid with ‘can do/can’t do’ on one axis and ‘willing to do/not willing to do’ on the other, as a tool for honest conversations with myself, God and others. It reminds me to fan the flame of the Spirit within and not to become jaded, fearful or complacent.

What part does ‘spirit’ play in your life and work? How to you spot, nurture and help sustain it in others?

44 Comments

Paul

10/7/2021 07:46:08 am

Not an easy task for Richard. Looking for spirit, talent and potential. They can easily be artificially manifested in the interview room. Wait for about six months or more then you'll realize the true colors. Been through that many times in my career Nick. Heading the HR Dept. We shouldn't trust much in your own instincts but rather in God's signs.

Insightful as always Nick! 🙂

Nick Wright

10/7/2021 12:46:16 pm

Thank you, Paul. Yes, as my mentor often says: 'These things are simple - but not easy.'

You reminded me of one organisation I worked with where, instead of a formal interview, they would take a person out for an informal lunch, a chat, then invite them to spend a day shadowing someone in a similar role to the one for which they were applying. It was remarkable how accurate their assessment of 'fit' was afterwards.

On, 'We shouldn't trust much in your own instincts but rather in God's signs', I worked with another organisation where, when conducting interviews, the People & Culture Director would ensure that she and a colleague had all formal bases covered (standard questions, scorings etc), and invite me to ask whatever surfaced for me in the moment.

That enabled a cross-checking between rational and intuitive during the interview and in review afterwards. She often remarked afterwards that the questions I posed, from the freedom of an emergent-intuitive place, turned out to be the most pivotal and revealing. It was a good reminder for me always to pray for wisdom and discernment..!

Ravi Raman

10/7/2021 12:29:41 pm

Absolutely Nick
It's always ASK
Attitude
Skills
Knowledge

In the same order of Priority

10/7/2021 12:32:04 pm

Thank you, Ravi. You may be interested in the Talent - Character - Engagement - Fit model in this related article (see Figure 2)? https://www.nick-wright.com/a-journey-towards-od.html

10/7/2021 01:16:19 pm

Thank you, Nick, for your offer and gesture. I went through your link and found it good, practical and sensible too.

However, for the moment, I will prefer not to be confined to the concept of Models in matters involving human behaviour and interaction.

Thank you, buddy.

10/7/2021 01:18:24 pm

Hi Ravi. You're welcome - and well said! You reminded me of Carl Jung's comment: 'Learn your theories and techniques well - but be prepared to let them go when you touch a human soul.'

11/7/2021 10:36:38 am

Awesome cross pollination of perspectives

I love your short crisp ones

Thanks

11/7/2021 10:37:24 am

Thanks Ravi. 😃

Kathrin Hoffmann

10/7/2021 01:51:12 pm

In my work with children and adolescents, I want to support them to recognize which skills are in them and that they can be proud of them. Their standard should not be "higher, further, better", but rather that they learn to develop trust in themselves and their abilities. Of course they will recognize that some talent is stronger in other people, but I always encourage them and look for positive approaches and perspectives for their work and results, so that they can see the positive in their work for themselves. In this way they should become self-confident, critical and fair towards their own attitude and that of others.

10/7/2021 02:03:15 pm

Hi Kathrin and thank you for sharing from personal experience. The approach you have described sounds healthy, appreciative and awareness-raising. You reminded me of a high school I worked with in the UK where they abandoned formal grading systems in favour of a similarly appreciative approach.

The teachers used a coaching approach with students, inviting them to reflect critically on their own work, approach and conduct in terms of 'what went well' and 'even better if'. (This was counter-cultural in a context where 'success' - for teachers, as well as for students - is often measured quantitatively in terms of grades).

Your comment: 'In this way they should become self-confident, critical and fair towards their own attitude and that of others' resonates well with Daniel Goleman's work on Emotional Intelligence, where he identified that soft skills (e.g. awareness, attitude, handling relationships) often prove most critical to 'success' in life and work contexts.

Richard Simpson

11/7/2021 10:26:30 am

Thought-provoking as ever Nick and I also appreciated the insights of Ravi and Kathrin. Again, your words take me back to my experience in the British health service which is systemically biased towards skills and competence and probably assumes that if you want to care for sick people then your heart's in the right place to start with. Professionals are often trusted to have the right values with little investigation. The various scandals afflicting the NHS down the years would suggest otherwise. Ravi's comment about Models and your quotation of Jung's is also something that interests me. Models have their uses - not least in providing consistency of approach. But I have seen too often that for many people adherence to a Model becomes more important than the person (or the patient) in front of them. I experimented with several models in my coaching and found none of them to be as effective as simply being present for the coachee, while of course recognising that without the Models I wouldn't have found an optimal approach.

11/7/2021 11:25:37 am

Thank you too, Richard. I always appreciate your stimulating insights from personal experience. As I read your reflections, I was reminded of initiatives such as values-based interviewing, aimed at surfacing values during recruitment. Values guru Jackie LeFevre has some fascinating insights in this area.

I had the privilege of working with Jackie some years ago and I love her provocative challenges, e.g. in this sample interview with a potential client: 'Picture the scene. Potential client: We want to do values-based interviewing. Jackie: You already do.' (https://www.peoplepowerevents.co.uk/post/unconscious-vs-conscious)

I agree with your comments about models which, in my experience, can prove both illuminating and constraining. Having said that, I quite like some of the gritty ethical interview questions posed here; e.g. 'Would you ever lie for me?': https://hiring.monster.com/employer-resources/recruiting-strategies/interviewing-candidates/interview-questions-to-ask-candidates/

11/7/2021 12:06:36 pm

Thanks Nick. The last Trust I worked for was very much into values-based recruitment which I fully supported. I like the gritty ethical questioning though. Your example is a killer. I can imagine it being couched this way: You say you're a team player, but would you ever lie to protect a colleague? Fascinating. And of course, organisations make all kinds of pious claims about their ethics but when a crisis strikes and their reputation is threatened, their ethics go out of the window.

11/7/2021 02:58:37 pm

Thanks Richard. I love your framing of the question: 'You say you're a team player, but would you ever lie to protect a colleague?' Wow. That would certainly help to shift the conversation around values and ethics from bland abstractions to concrete realities.

Interestingly, I imagine that what would be considered an appropriate response to the question could be indicative of wider cultural ethics and values too. That reminds me of situational ethics - which would also open up a richer conversation than simple answers.

On the 'organisations make all kinds of pious claims' issue, these couple of short related pieces may be of interest?

https://www.nick-wright.com/blog/fake-mews
https://www.nick-wright.com/blog/values

Andrew Mayo

11/7/2021 10:44:38 am

Hi Nick

I like your two axes of “able” and “ willing”. Its a great way of challenging our willingness to actually do stuff!

All the best
Andrew

11/7/2021 11:32:11 am

Thank you, Andrew. Yes, it can be very useful in conversations where, say, a person feels stuck. I had one such conversation with a young person recently who said they were tired of having so little disposable income. We started with a principle that, to increase their disposable income, they could (a) increase their income and/or (b) decrease their expenditure. They agreed.

However, when we looked at what they could do in either of those domains, it became clear very quickly that there was a big gap between what the could do, and what they were willing to do. They considered, for instance, that all their current expenditure (e.g. living off expensive takeaways, rather than cooking their own food) was essential - and that led to a very different conversation...!

Neill Hahn

12/7/2021 10:33:41 am

Totally agree. You can improve on your business assets by teaching skills to someone but a skill filled pain-in-the-arse is likely to be a destructive liability, difficult to manage & to get rid of.

12/7/2021 10:44:08 am

Thank you, Neill - and delicately put! :)

Yes, I came to the conclusion when working at this Christian NGO that we were looking for a dynamic combination of talent (attitude + capability); character (values + behaviour); engagement (passion + commitment); and fit (role + culture). (If interested, I did a write-up of our approach here: https://www.nick-wright.com/a-journey-towards-od.html)

The question of pain-in-the-proverbial is a really interesting one, particularly vis a vis 'fit' (culture) above. Whilst recognising that some attitudes and behaviours can be a 'destructive liability', there's flip-side that intrigues me too. In case of interest, I jotted some short reflections on this theme in a couple of related pieces:

https://www.nick-wright.com/blog/disruptive-influence
https://www.nick-wright.com/blog/deviant

12/7/2021 03:28:07 pm

Thanks for those links to interesting articles Nick. I particularly liked... "Without a genuine spirit of relationship and intention of support, we risk simply p***ing people off."
The p-i-t-a type that I was thinking of in my comment refers to those who are only interested in promoting their personal agenda (including "just give me the pay and leave me alone") or boosting their ego and are not interested in the company's business. Challenging processes etc, isn't what I could be credibly critical of, or I would have been fired from most jobs I've been in. Comfortable people change nothing and development requires the ability to manage periods of discomfort, as you know. I have tagged your write-up on your approach for me to have a re-read of. A lot to take in, but as always, interesting and informative.

12/7/2021 03:30:48 pm

Thanks Neill. "Development requires the ability to manage periods of discomfort." I love that! So true - yet not always easy to handle in the moment.

Michelle Hlywa

12/7/2021 03:31:46 pm

Firm believer. Show me you can think differently. Show me you want growth. Show me you have the capacity to dream. I'll teach you every skill I know, and I'll expect you to teach me about your influences as well.

12/7/2021 03:34:10 pm

Thanks Michelle. I really like how you expressed that. It reminded me of Bruce Lee's philosophy too. (In case of interest, have a glance at: https://www.nick-wright.com/blog/re-enter-the-dragon)

Muhammad Hamza

14/7/2021 01:00:47 pm

Very right, Nick.

14/7/2021 01:01:13 pm

Thank you, Muhammad.

Clare Kenway

14/7/2021 06:56:36 pm

Teaching is a skill and some aspects of it can be learned, some aspects are skills that some have and others dont. There are things that cannot be taught to some people so you do hire for skills but also for attitude. The right person has a great attitude and the right teaching skills. For the most part you are correct but sometimes, hiring someone for their attitude is a disaster because their attitude is great but they dont have the skills or the capacity to complete the tasks required. I remember a military advert that summed it up 'it's a state of mind'. I could have a great attitude and willingness to work but without the mental approach to fire the gun I wont make a good soldier. Attitude is one important factor but not necessarily what you should be basing your entire hiring process on.

14/7/2021 07:12:35 pm

Thank you, Clare. ‘ Attitude is one important factor but not necessarily what you should be basing your entire hiring process on.’ i agree. I would always look for a dynamic combination of talent (attitude + capability); character (values + behaviour); engagement (passion + commitment); and fit (role + culture).

14/7/2021 10:55:16 pm

Nick, sounds like you know exactly what you are looking for in a candidate!

Nick

14/7/2021 10:57:04 pm

Hi Clare. Indeed...but seeking and finding can be two very different things. 😃

Angela Lauria

15/7/2021 11:12:39 pm

Hard agree—but I also think it's SUPER important to have an onboarding framework in place because the "skills" part is still a lot easier said than done when you're starting out! Even a new hire with THE best attitude can get fed up if your training methods suck.

16/7/2021 12:06:27 am

Hi Angela. Yes, indeed. Attitude is critical...but not enough on its own. It provides the spirit, the soul, the energy to learn, but onboarding and training to enable performance can be vital too.

Mark Devincentis

16/7/2021 04:16:38 pm

Nick, 100% on point! You can train skills, but not attitude.

16/7/2021 04:17:12 pm

Thank you, Mark. 😃

Sean Fields

17/7/2021 11:09:06 pm

I don't care for the idea that any skill can be taught to anyone with the right attitude. People are not interchangeable. Everyone has different strengths. I can have all the attitude in the world but I will never win Wimbledon.

18/7/2021 02:55:05 am

Hi Sean. That’s a fair challenge…and I agree completely.

18/7/2021 02:57:47 am

I don't care for that idea either, but that is not what the article says. It is exploring 1) the hiring situation where both parties have skills but one party has less skills and the other a bad attitude to the work and 2) the impact that this is likely to have on the company who hires someone with a poor attitude.
The other side of your example is that there are probably many people with the ability at tennis to win at Wimbledon, but they don't have the desire or drive to get that involved. i.e. they don't have the attitude required... but most know it, so they don't waste anyone's time in applying for it anyway.

18/7/2021 03:00:19 am

Thanks Neill - and well said.

Abdullah Zekrullah

19/7/2021 11:10:12 am

Lots of gold in this article, thanks for sharing.

19/7/2021 11:11:24 am

You’re welcome, Abdullah - and thank you for such encouraging feedback. ☀️

21/7/2021 10:53:10 am

Hi Nick. I saw this on a job ad today after reading your article! “We hire character and we train skill.”

21/7/2021 10:54:15 am

Hi RA. That’s great! Thank you for sharing. 😃

Mirela Marusic

22/7/2021 11:17:41 am

It would be so great if the above would be true!!!! I am still seeing that organizations are much more interested into skills and what has been done then what the attitude is and what could be done.....

22/7/2021 11:29:36 am

Thank you, Mirela. I'm curious. Why do you think so many 'organizations are much more interested in skills...than attitude'? I spoke with an HR colleague about this phenomenon. She suggested that, perhaps, it's because skills are easier (than attitude) to measure and to fit into competency frameworks? It's one of the risks of prioritising that which is measurable.

Charlie Murray

22/7/2021 04:09:15 pm

Agreed - even if someone has all the right skills, if they don't have the right spirit, they won't be invested in what they're doing (And they'll take ownership, as you said).

22/7/2021 04:18:49 pm

Thanks Charlie. Indeed. You may find the 'Talent-Character-Engagement-Fit' model in this article (Fig 2) interesting? Let me know what you think?

https://www.nick-wright.com/a-journey-towards-od.html

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